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But, yeah, female fronted bands make such disparate types of music that it's difficult, if not impossible, to group them under that header.
Deerhoof is quite nice though.
would you feel comfortable if the thread said 'deerhoof are the greatest asian fronted band ever'?
that would be Echobelly, surely?
yes i would
That would be Cibo Matto.
Japan isn't a constituent part of it.
Cibo Matto still rocks.
the hell out of me a lot of late, primarily because I'm in a 3/4 male band (i.e. 'female-fronted') and we're always getting asked to play ladyfest, riot grrrl nights etc. Now while I'll admit the singer is the focus of the band, we're still more male than female... The joke is, it's always women that organise these gigs...
That was quite an attack. Is it sexist or something? It didn't bother me.
just high horse riding
He's the expert.
need to get over themselves a bit
ought to remember that just because they're too ignorant about bigotry, it doesn't mean that others shouldn't.
that was meant to read
people love to categorise when they discuss music in all different shapes and forms.
is a little strong without further evidence, but I'll settle for sexist. I was referring more to the 'get over it' post than the thread starter.
isn't getting you any pussy, is it? Lighten up.
In the event that you're a woman, stop trundling about in your sensible shoes desperately searching for things to get offended by. Yes, all of the other girls really are having more fun than you.
looking for things to be offended by. It was right at the top of page of threads on the music forum that I regularly read. It's not like I heard about some gaffe on the Daily Mail web site and had to go and take offense for myself.
I'll stop getting offended when there stops being things that cause offence (to me and many others). Not that you'd have a clue, judging by your limp put-down, which displays a complete lack of appreciation of alternative perspectives. While we're playing the guessing game, you aren't by chance a young white male are you?
It's not like female fronted bands isn't a commonly used term, type it into google (rightly or wrongly) it has been used a lot. And I'm assuming that inside-outside was only using the term to explain his love for Deerhoof. This is a potential Deefhoof love-in thread that has turned into something completely different.
Also by your logic it would be sexist for me to say Kate Winslet is the best female actor (actress), because I shouldn't be categorising her by her gender. She is a performance artist (like Deerhoof) so it is a strong comparison.
Were you offended by the BAFTAs at the weekend.
I imagine that's true; it's just a rather back-handed way of expressing it - best female version of something implies inherent inferiority to male versions, and nor is female a genre.
I've never understood why actors are divided into gender for the awards, it's not like you have best female director, or screenwriter etc at these things. You're right that the comparison is strong, and I think 'Best Actress' awards seem less glaring for their historical entrenchment really, more than any principled reason.
The example below of 'best 3-piece' - that doesn't have any connotations vis-a-vis say a 4-piece band, at least to my knowledge. But nor is being a 3-piece a fixed element of identity, like gender or ethnicity; therefore to make value judgments on that category is to do so with voluntary entry from the participants.
If it's just different (rather than inferior), then how come you don't ever see a discussion about the best male-fronted band? It's a gross oversimplification to call this merely a difference when such an inequality exists between these groups (male/female) in this sphere.
There are less women active in popular music then there are men. However, discussion of those women isn't necessarily relegating them to an inferior or supporting role. I think, in a way, that assuming that women would be offended is just as patronising as 'lumping them all in together'.
I'm not saying that discussing 'best x fronted bands' is a worthwhile one, and personally I would find a one about male groups as relevant as this one.
As someone's said below, if this were phrased as 'best front-woman' it would be a less 'controversial' topic. After all, the male voice is a different instrument to the female one.
Also, is gender a fixed aspect of identity? With regards to music and performance art can it not be blurred? (I know that this isn't relevant to what you're talking about specifically, but it's something to think about)
then it'd be less of an issue. It's more that women are frequently marginalised as participants in music (among other things), of which this kind of discussion is part of a more insidious whole - not by any means the worst part, but part nevertheless. People viewing this topic in a vacuum without the relevant social context would probably tend to ascribe innocent difference or categorisation, as many in this discussion have done, but it's more complex than that.
I haven't assumed that all women would be offended; I've commented because I'm offended, and many other people are as well. Nor is it only women who could take offence for that matter - you don't need to be Jewish to be offended by anti-semitism, for instance.
The male voice is not a different instrument to the female voice, except insofar as to say that Attila Csihar's voice is a different instrument to Jonsi Burgisson's voice, which is really just to say that all voices are unique instruments. Either way, the division (if it exists) is not between genders.
Also I completely disagree with your "implies inherent inferiority" statement it is just difference. It's the same as saying "The white stripes are the best musical duo" or "Liars are the greatest three piece" it's just a way of splitting down and categorising bands - these are not genres. Also genres are so fragmented and subjective it's not really a solid bases to compare music.
Well, no they're not. At least in my book.
There's Au Pairs, Electrelane, Sleater-Kinney, Girls Aloud, Blondie, KaitO, Life without buildings, The Slits...
Even with a team of writers making their songs they've nothing in the same league as S-K or Blondie. I wouldn't take them above LWB either but that's because GA songs are overlong and like one of those dishes on Masterchef where someone just doesn't stop putting ingredients in.
And that wasn't a list in order either, just a stream of bands to point out that there are far better ones than Deerhoof. Stupid name for a band anyway...
Like in every way.
The band took a holiday in Majorca for a week in the middle of this, and some of the experiences they had were an inspiration for the new tracks. (i.e. 'Shots' 'Last Orders' and 'Lost Morning').
Those titles are inspired genius.
plus every one of vamos'. His list is great.
they're alright, I'd probably pick Sleater-Kinney over them though.
being thrown around as fact. Half the people on this thread would probably give a different answer this time next year, the pedantic fucks
not that it matters in the slightest
with 'deer' or 'hoof' in their name.
(alto actually I prefer deerhoof to both, but hey)
and IMO they are shited all over by Deerhoof.
Not that either is necessarily bad.
The Dear Hunter, but that's almost definitely just me.
in that i cant believe people are getting really annoyed about grouping girl fronted bands together. Are you all 15 or something?
it is also ridiculous in that deerhoof are probably not the best girl fronted band of all time, as there have been many other good ones.
as for best asian fronted indie band of all time... perhaps?
insofar as it appears to most be a bunch of indie blokes arguing too and fro over the honour of womenfolk.
I think it's a disparaging term because it infers it's some sort of minority genre and I just think it kind of sucks if people think about their music that way 'oh yeah, I like a bit of everything me - indie, hip hop, even female fronted'.
But probably the intent wasn't to rile people who spent their university days being pumped full of feminist theory (hello!), but fiddygent, I'm sure if the question had been 'who is your favourite frontwoman?' nobody would have got het up at all, just as that female guitarist thread from a while back went off without incident. In any case we're probably all getting a bit internet about it at the moment.
But I honestly don't see the problem with the topic of this thread. But like you said, had it been worded better then people wouldn't have got riled up
I don't understand your last paragraph and why it's directed to me. I just don't think people should throw accusations of bigotry or sexism around so casually - that's why I waded in. I can't stop or help people from being offended by the thread header, people are free to be offended by what want - but they should think it automatically gives them a right to attack others in cases why the offence was slight and (i'm assuming)unintentional.
but I just mean in relation to the Kate Winslet thing you posted above. I mean, taking the film analogy to its logical conclusion, I think you'd be more saying 'what is your favourite film with a woman as the lead?'
Most have both, hence no analogy will be perfect.
But taking my pedantic hat off..I see your point.
this thread is like, wayyyyyyyyyy internet
From Deerhoof is a female?
This thread is bollocks, listen to Melt Banana if you want to rock.
And I meant to click on reply not upvote I'm way off today
And... I personally don't tend to make "Female Fronted Bands" a seperate topic for discussion or analysis but, y'know, there's nothing in the subject header which is at all harmless really now, is there?
B/c that's the only good thing about Deerhoof.
I reckon. Great drumming.
Deep breaths people.
Women/girls/ladies etc sound different.
E.g. Girls (not all but most) sing higher than men and in a different way.
So, I would argue it is entirely legitimate to ask 'best band with a female vocalist?' in the same way as 'best band with a baritone guitar?' or 'best band without a bassist?' or whatever. They sound different and can be categorised by sound and that's ok. It's got nothing to do (necessarily) with gender politics, so chill yr beans.
Oh and Throwing Muses.
And raise you Cocteau Twins.
And yes, this is a stupid thread.
absolutely no fucking question.
I like Portishead. And Major Stars.
How up to date is all this feminist theory people are pumped full of because I'd have said even in the last 10 years things have moved on in the world of gender equality and how people perceive things.
Being offended by this makes you a DICK. DICK!
Sleater-Kinney, Blondie, Portishead & The Slits have all had a mention.
But not The Breeders, Saint Etienne, ESG, The Slits, The Raveonettes, Boss Hogg, A Camp / The Cardigans, Moloko, Elastica, Belly, Ladytron, Stereolab, The Kills, The Concretes, The Delgados, The Chiffons, The Ronettes, Gladys Knight & The Pips, The Supremes...
are fucking great
And raise you OOIOO
the commotion? to some, 'female fronted' bands will fall into a certain category in their mind, whilst to others they will fit into another, isn't that just difference of opinion rather than bigotry? plus isnt music about this anyway- a difference of opinion, thua thats the reason that an individual 'prefers' one genre to another?