and so it should
and so it should
eg. how Burial is classed as "dubstep".
much better than your typical WOB WOB WOBBING.
strains go off in all directions...
Ravey wobble is one of them but so is the deep ghostly garage of Burial. There is a split happening with people getting bored of the wobble and relentless BIG drop mentality that goes on in some circles. But people want to rave and hear agressive stuff when they go out its just the way it is. In other raves you'll hear deeper/darker/stranger experiments... hell you even hear them in the same rave sometimes. The wibble wobble has come to typify the scene for a lot of people esspecialy if you've only had a passing interest or just been to a studenty rave or one of the huge ravey raves. But else where there is so much going on and its still geared at the dance floor but its experiemntaing with all sorts.
'No summary of the year in dubstep would be complete without the ever-expanding wobble side of the scene, recently hilariously and accurately renamed "brostep." In the UK, the wobble sound is now the default dubstep position for many fans, as the scene commands a increasing share of the Friday night/student/super club market. With the fanbase expanded far beyond any one core, complaints about deviations from South London circa 2005 or an overall loss of direction feel increasingly irrelevant. Many new dubstep fans neither know nor care about those issues, and complaining about glories past is futile. So fair play to all the brostep ravers 'aving it: Elsewhere, the myriad heads of the post-dubstep hydra moves on, often containing those who originally built the dubstep sound.'
i.e. I have friends that are really really into the wobby side of things, like skream, caspa, rusko (and benga to a lesser extent) etc - but haven't even heard of Burial's style. I think they do just see dubstep as upbeat "studenty rave" music, and don't really want to explore other sides of it, which is sad.
There is some good stuff in that style too but a lot of it isn't my thing at all and a whole night of it is just boring. Skream is a good example of bridging the gap he does big rave tracks and deeper stuff with his own productions. It depends where you see him play to what kind of set you'll hear when he's booked for a big student union or huge festival he's gonna play mostly bangers but in other places like DMZ or FWD>> he'll probibly drop more deep stuff.
It seems like lots of intelligent people like it, but to me it just sounds like ridiculous noise.
Subeena Ft. Jamie Woon & Om'Mas Keith - Solidify
Darkstar – Aidy’s Girl is a Computer
Guido Ft. Aarya – Beautiful Complication
Pangaea – Memories
Cooly G – Love Dub
Pinch Ft. Yolanda – Get Up
Instra:mental Ft. dBridge – Watching You
Martyn Ft. dBridge – These Words
If you're scared of that lot then you're wetter than a bag of kittens and if you think it's just noise you've probibly only heard this end of things: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciOmlFLZNx0
I was gonna say not that it matter, but because I've heard her name mentioned in terms of funky a lot, but what I've heard of funky hasn't sounded that much like; more light, more housier, slightly r 'n' b-esque vocal, but that track just sounds like a slightly slowed down dubsteppy kind of thing to these uneducated ears.
but blurs the lines like much of the rest of that list. Thats the point really its all about the edges and margins, thats where the interesting stuff lives at the moment. Have you heard her track on the Hyperdub comp? Weekend Fly its quality, really broken skeletal sleek housey number but really dubbed out too. I think she's brilliant.
(postal strike and that, i guess) I'm looking forward to it though.
That Love Dub is definitely one of my favorite tracks of the years, whatever it is. I shall do a bit more funky research. Marcus Nasty's Rinse FM podcasts are good I gather. I'll have a listen to them.
Cooly G did a couple of shows on Rinse earlyer in the year they were so good. The audio might be around for those somewhere, she plays a lot of stuff from outside the funky scene too like european/US house stuff and bits from dubstep guys like brackles, Shortstuff, Martin Kemp.
and all the stoners who had to resit year twelve last year were DJing and they played dubstep all night.
i don't mind it personally but it was a massive buzzkill for the party's atmosphere.
Brostep stuff just pisses me off.
I'm still looking for a happy medium, because i really like atmospheric, innovative music but just havent really found my thing yet.
I dunno loads more... They all have loads of energy but don't stray into the jump up bro' world. Or if you want atmospheric something like Shackleton, Mala, Loefah, Kryptic Minds, Scuba, Silkie, Quest... they might sound chilled at home but in the club they are huge sounding beasts that punch you in the chest with the bass weight, even Burial kicks hard on a big system.
sifting through, definitely some cool stuff there, hoping some of it sticks!
The 'Thrasher' warehouse project in Manchester was immense.
Martyn is the absolute tops as far as I'm concerned.
btw I had to re-sit my finals for the Institute of Chartered Accountants, but I got in, and now I'm retired.
I'll leave it to you to work out who's the slacker here.
It keeps getting longer and more ridiculous
thanks to this thread I am now checking out the Five Years of Hyperdub compilation on Spotify and christ it is good so far
The Joker/J Kamata/Ikonika etc post-Burial Hyperdub output has been immense and joyous.
also: you're as arrogant as he is in some ways. "I think it's a typically British thing to shun something that we should be proud of because we don't quite understand it. "? lollerskates.
Not if you're listening to the base level rave-fodder, sure, that's as functional as your average jump-up dance stuff.
But listen to something like Untold's Gonna Work Out Fine EP, anything by Peverelist, Shackleton's Three EPs or Scuba's new Aesaunic EP - they're all taking electronic music in innovative and hugely exciting new directions.
He's got some stuff up on the Punch Drunk records myspace, it's simply hypnotic and beautiful electronic music, whatever genre you want to call it.
when you dismiss animal collective's innovation with something as trite as "don't make me laugh." even if you don't like ac i think you still have to concede they're carving their own genuinely innovative furrow, as much as any of the dubstep 'pioneers.'
"Sorry if this comes across as arrogant and if people are happy in their safe, 20th century worlds then fine. But don't knock people for wanting something more than that."
the underlying sentiment here is, innovation outside of dance music is impossible. rock music, and anything from a vaguely rock background, or that has emerged through the "rock media" (and clearly that's being stretched to animal collective) is dead and 20th century. and i think it's fair enough for people to construe that as arrogant and unfair.
doing something really interesting and inovative at the moment, its got roots in a lot of other music but its really pushing a sound of its own that not only takes in lots of other sounds but transends them completly into new areas. Not many genres manage that, most come out sounding like mashups not a whole new thing. I'd suggest stuff but I'm always doing that on here anyway...
Plus its in the mentality of the genre to move FWD>> and dont look back to much, its a very optamistic comunity thats always trying new things. So that creeps into it a bit as people get carried away and shout about it being inovative more than they would say guitar based music, which has a very backward looking retro kind of mentality, compared to dubstep at least. Not all of it is inovative but there is so much that is right now and its exciting so people shout about it and get enthusiastic, its refreshing to be honest.
I think the genre is going to get a lot of stick soon as 1) its getting bigger/more attention. 2) the biggest most visable part of the scene is the ravey noisey wibble-wobble-jelly-on-a-plate-step, which people just tuning in to the current hype will no doubt first see and dissmiss as the whole genre sounding like that. 3) a lot of people just aint gonna like it its a very niche sound.
from the days of disco sux. but yeah, comes to the same thing.
I agree whole-heartedly. I'm not one for saying 'rock is dead' or any such foolish statements, but it's quite interesting to look at how much of current rock excitement is based around essentially retro stuff. Note, not ALL based around retro stuff, there is some absolutely fantastic guitar based music around at the moment from all genres, but I think it's possible to see how disillusioned people can get with it.
I mean, the fastest-selling two ATPs ever have been based around the reformation of nineties bands (and I love ATP, have been to it twice a year since 05 or so, yadayada).
Which is why it's nice to see that there's so much genuine innovation going on in an area of music, which is I think what leads people to be so defensive around the whole scene surrounding dubstep.
that's what YOU think.
i think it's interesting that when you talk about why you like dubstep you mention how it's innovative and relevent and has some measure of indie cred.
thing you don't seem to grasp is that most people aren't fussed by such ideas. people like different music for difference reasons, but usually because it connects with them on a personal level somehow.
if that's how it works for you, then fine, but it's ridiculous to bleat on about how its "innovative" and people just don't understand it because it makes you look like an arrogant prick.
Not that keen on the "omgminimal" pasturised inevitable Muji / beige stuff.
"Burnin" by Coki and that one Skream does with the female M.C who goes
"MA MAN A GOOD GOOD MAN 'IM NOT A BAD MANNNNN"
That tune's boss.
Suggestions please Jimi.
Jakes - 3kout
Cluekid - Chickenfoot
Coki - Shattered
Skream - Burnin' Up
Cluekid & LD - I Don't Wana Cry
Benga & Kutz - I'll Kut Ya
Jakes - Rock Da Bells
Coki - Gobblin
Zomby - Float (Skreamix)
Joker - Tron
Skream - Filth (Silkie Remix)
Now thats filth I can get on board with, I just like it mixed up with some more bumpin boogie matterial or it gets to much with the drop after drop after drop of it all.
oh for god's sake
A lot of recent Coki stuff is really greasy sounding, which makes me feel a bit unhappy inside.
Jakes' Rock Da Bells on the other hand is massive in a good and entertainingly fun way.
Ehwhat, you should check out Untold's Anaconda or Stop What You're Doing. Both wierd as hell and kind of goofy, but not in a wib-wob kind of way.
its big brash and stupid in a comedy way, its so dark and gnarly and I can only stand it for a little while tho. I think that was the edge of the abyse falling away for the wobble really. Nothing has been as stupidly dark and aggressive since. Road Rage by Coki is so shit, when that dropped at DMZ in leeds the other month it totaly destroyed the vibe and sounded so weak. I like his early bits though Shattered and Toutured are so good.
Stop What You're Doing
I can only find a clip of the James Blake remix but its just as fun... infact all that new Untold EP is purty party fodder.
They both sound so insane and fun in the dance and they are pretty much beatless too which is strange to get use to haha
you obviously have a very noble and valiid point, because dubstep IS really exciting, innovative and doing very different things to a lot of other musical spheres. and it would be great if everyone was more involved in it. but all your arguments are full of such loaded language!! dis users don't get irritated by people listening to dubstep, they get irritated by people listening to dubstep and then saying that it's amazing and uniformly better than everything anyone else is listening to, and that in fact everybody else is BLINKERED for not realising this. it's unbelievably condescending, and i'm struggling to establish how you haven't worked this out yet.
That Dancing Demons label thats rumoured to be his is very good indeed so I have hope for Coki getting back into the mix a bit more and doing something special again.
whatever he says. zapsta saying dubstep scares me... is that even an indictment of dubstep in any way? or is it a joke? so yeah... why are you getting so worked up about this?
your point about the infrastructure of dubstep is pretty much irrefutable though. it's an incredibly successful cottage industry and it should be put on a pedestal really. i think a lot of people could do worse than just attempt to copy it wholesale.
Both immediately leaping to the extremes of the argument. KiK says dubstep and those who listen to it are boring, so you immediately come out with the tired dubstephead argument that rock music is dead and that dubstep is the future. Why is it an either/or? It's not exactly intelligent, is it?
The difference between you is that KiK does it to wind people up, while you seem to be overbearingly earnest. It depends on where you stand as to which is worse.
Considering the amazingly deep sounds he was making in the early days of DMZ it's such an odd way for him to go. Even Loefah in that interview with Blackdown implied that he wasn't into his newer stuff, think he said something like 'I haven't cut a Coki tune since Spongebob'.
if anyone is going to take the massive wobble into darker more insane places its Coki. I think he kind of stopped for a bit as everyone was just doing his tricks, I think Gobblin was an experiment in how wobble can get even more insane. I dunno what he's gonna do next really I wouldn't be suprised if its either something so next level insane and noisey or something more mellow and funky... or maybe something like Joker a bit funky and synthy but you know Coki style.... fucked up.
I mean, a dubstep night is all about the atmosphere, especially something like DMZ. There's not much about Goblin (for example) or insane wobble that lets you 'meditate on bass weight'. Who knows, he's obviously a talented producer and has some seriously messed up ideas. Would like to hear him do something Joker-esque, I bet that would be amazing.
the first time I went to DMZ I've not hear it since though. There was a thread on DSF about it at the time and some really shit audio from someones mobile phone hahah Someone discribed it as angels singing... but you know Coki style it was big and wobbly it had a really energetic build and loads of mad hyper string things I dunno its hard to explain/remember after only hearing it a few times ages ago at DMZ.
He's got a quality track on Dancing Demons called 'Warlord Riddim' that sounds like a dub soundsystem version of funky its well nice http://www.chemical-records.co.uk/sc/servlet/Info?Track=DDEMON001 the other side is just coki coki
will put a listen on that shit asap.
there are loads more too, I only tend to pick and mix from this side of the genre really as a lot of it doesn't float my boat I like getting mixed up in the strange deep stuff most of the time with a few of these thrown in for kicks. But all those picks I enjoy a lot.
Stagga - Sick As Sin
quality video too
hasn't dance-based genres got the whole no-one buys records anymore thing sorted out? Everyone surely buys dubstep records, because the music is so good, you want to hear it properly. You can't torrent a track then play it in a club, and dubplates etc. keep people's tracks to themselves. To a similar extent limited-release and the effort put into packaging by warp and hyperdub even encourage people to buy cds. Similarly though outside of dubstep, people like The Caretaker who put effort into a physical product have that physical product bought, and that's seems to me a far easier way to get people to buy records than to get your fans to sign up to sign-a-band or something.
Even a label like Highpoint Lowlife which does mostly digital releases is pushing the way forward in cutting prices for class albums, such as 10-20's, down to about £4/5 and meaning anyone, anywhere can get them instantly. Hotflush gave me £5 worth of free downloads from Juno the other day for signing up to a mailing list. Now, even if you don't like dubstep, that's confident promotion, and would even something like Domino or Rough Trade be able to pull that off.
So, anyway, I completely agree that when there is a hell of a lot of content on this site bemoaning the death of the music industry, and Public Enemy or Idlewild using fan-funded methods, but I think Sean and people are definitely looking in the wrong places to get their forward-looking ways of working.
Or recommend any albums other than Untrue
Some of my personal favourite mixes:
Jamie Vex'd LuckyMe (it's number 25)
loads of the others are awsome too
Or go here:
Or buy one of the Dubstep Allstars Mix CD's/Listen to Rinse FM & Sub FM.
There are loads of albums in loads of styles, I really don't know where to start no-one really sounds like Burial... Hyperdub's '5' compilation pretty much sums up where things are right now, which all over the place and in many styles from hip-hop to house and techno, god knows... Some of my fave artists albums are: 2562, Starkey, Burial, Pinch, Kode9, Flying Lotus, Martyn, Kryptic Minds, Clubroot, Silkie, Zomby, FaltyDL, RSD, Distance... Its about 12"s, singles and EPs mostly though, thats where the acction is most artists probibly wont ever think about albums.
So yeah... hope that helps, you find something you enjoy and dig deeper thru digging out names from the track lists, I get less board at gone midnight...
In the sense that it's a scene mostly based around 12" singles. Of the albums around, check out:
Kode9 & The Spaceape - Memories of the Future
Five Years of Hyperdub (Compilation)
Dubstep Allstars mixes - particularly 3 and 6 (Kode9 and Appleblim), and no. 7 is out this month.
Shackleton - Three EPs
2562 - Unbalance
Pinch - Underwater Dancehall
El-B - The Roots of El-B (though more garage than dubstep really)
FaltyDL - Love Is A Liability
Zomby - One Foot Ahead of the Other EP
Untold - Gonna Work Out Fine EP
Scuba - Aesaunic EP
Mixes wise, these are all good 'uns:
Untold FACT mix - http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2821&Itemid=98
Geiom FACT mix - http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2770&Itemid=98
(though more housey than anything)
Komonazmuk Kmag mix - http://sonicrouter.blogspot.com/2009/11/readdownload-komonazmuk-kmag-guest-mix.html
Pangaea Reprise mix - http://www.dubstepforum.com/reprise-podcast-011-pangaea-t81692.html
Skream - Midnight Request Line
D1 - Bamboo
Pangaea - Router
Komonazmuk - Bad Apple
Shackleton - Death Is Not Final
Ramadanman - Humber
Peverelist - Clunk Click Every Trip
Offhand thinking, there's loads more worth investigating...