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If this is all it takes to make albums then consider me a musician.
Oh my God, this is just so horrifically BAD!!!!!
you're allowed to dislike music that others like
if you play them really fucking loud.
when at least i would be slightly more guided in terms of expectations. I've now listened to their new album 1 1/2 times, but still not illuminated in terms of what its purpose is. I doubt i'll be swayed, but i might as well give it another bash to test the waters.
god i love you cronin
Until I was round a mates house and we got a bit boozy (not that you need to be) and he played grim robes and cranked the stereo about as loud as it would go, it was enjoyable because on all the different textures that hide under the general drone and it was extremely satisfying, you liken them to when your trying to get a good bass sound but I personally find doing that great fun. Also I saw them live about a month ago and it was hypnotic. But yeah not really the sort of thing you whack on at a diner party.
so basically you're saying any old coot can make this pish
this is a new opinion. ;)
but unless you like heavy, noisey and doomy music. There is no point in wasting your time with it.
I personally love sunn o)))!
this'll make the headlines tonight
which sunn o))) track btw? do you normally write off, not just an entire band, but genre, on the basis of one track?
It's fun fun fun
"Join the dark side" etc
or if your more into the black metal/doom influences Black One, I would say Sunn O))) inhabit a fairly extreme area in regards to drone/doom so sometimes it can take a bit of getting used to. Or it might just not be your thing idk.
Sunn O)) are one of the few bands in that genre that don't require 'getting used to'..
If you don't like it at first there is nothing ot 'dig into'...it is very SHALLOW MUSIC..there is nothing 'below the surface'...that's the bloody point.
It's barefaced shallow music that you should just pound your head too.
simply because like a lot of drone records Sunn O)))'s output particularly on Black One can come across as fairly static and lacking dynamics at surface level. But beneath that there is movements and ebb and flow and it's that that makes them so appealing personally.
Not to mention Domkirke and Oracle where often the songs unfurl slowly adding different sounds textures to the mix along a period of time. Granted it's not math rock, but I think there is a definite objective to their music beyond that initial barefaced shallow appeal.
is a good one to introduce people to Sunn O))) with, but not so much White 2. Tbh, Monoliths and Dimensions is the most immediate of their albums, so if he's struggling with that one he probably just doesn't like them. Although they are an acquired taste, and as a fan of Sunn O))) I recommend he sticks with it.
I mean, the decent reviews must be coming from somewhere. I'm not saying "everyone is wrong for liking them" (subjectivity and all that), but i just found it the musical equivalent of mud.
If that's immediacy i think i might just steer clear. I mean, the decent reviews must've been coming from somewhere, so that's why i didn't like to instantly write it off....but to me (note: subjectivity, not a "^WRONG"-esque comment) it was the musical equivalent of mud.
since I was listening to White 2 yesterday but I enjoy both of those records (along with Domkirke) more than Monoliths and Dimensions (aside from Alice). It could well be the large amounts of hype that's making me a little lukewarm to M&D though.
It jumps around from naff vocals to choir to synth to trombone and doesn't let anything breathe for enough time IM-HOOOO
not really, that would be taking my respect of your tastes a little too far and you did once say bad things about Jane Doe :)
Where would you rank it in terms of awful music you've heard?
I know it's all subjective opinion, and they've garnered great reviews for the new album (which is what i've just listened to) but it was just, in my opinion, utterly shit. It's just one note played every 10 seconds or so. It's boring, it lacks any substance (or style) and i can't understand what people would find enjoyable about it whatsoever. But, y'know: OPINION!
Saying that it is just one note is plain wrong. It's their album with most guest musicians, every track uses a lot of strings or brass or choir or synths or whatever. That's not something that can be debated. You obviously don't get it. And no, that's also not just an opinion.
It's maybe an aquired taste. One of the reasons I love it is the way it points towards connections between genres such as classical minimalism and jazz and space rock and fantasy metal. Others hate it for just that reason.
"It's just a guitarist hitting playing one chord every 10 seconds or so with some cruddy vocals over the top and a guy holding his face down across 3 buttons of a keyboard throughout the 10 minutes"
Dude have you really heard the album? You also claim that the first track is just a guy tuning a bass. You did hear the classical orchester that enters the track? You know, the endpoint of the track?
It's minimalism. Stack it up with Glass, Reich, Eno, Stars of the Lid etc.
but the vocals are bloody terrible! Really really bad.
It's like the Julian Cope guest spot all over again!
the counter point of attila(?)... idk, i think he takes away from it, although maybe thats the point, you know? to drag you back down from the clouds near the SUNN to the EARTH
Live and on the track Decay, Attila's vocals match the music perfectly and are more like a third instrument than a voice per se. On Hunting and Gathering it's more straight doom so that's fine but the first track is awful from 5 mins in, really embarrassing, awful.
"I zearch for da riddle......of clods."
At least the Cope track felt a bit tongue-in-cheek.
I mean in a way. In the way that I am a bit annoyed by his presence :)
I really love The Marble Index by Nico, the music really fits with the coldness of her delivery and accent. In fact it's one of my favourite albums, quite dark and minimal (like Sunn 0))) maybe), but I've never been bothered with her vocals on the VU and... or Chelsea Girl.
i enjoy some doomy bands (well, mostly early pelican and boris), and love bands like stars of the lid and hammock, but with Sunn there are no schematics for the most part, nothing to warrant listening for more than a minute or so.
but the worst track ever?
Surely that would be Kid British or Dana or Sir Harry Seacombe or Snap! or something.
I'm curious that it's sheer 'otherness' doesn't even give it some air of 'what the fuck is this?' even if you hate it.
I mean you're saying almost exactly what my Dad said when he first heard Jimi Hendrix but I guess he has the excuse of being born in the 1930s.
"well, what a great song that is". it's more about sitting back and letting the whole sound of it take you over and cover you up in a big dark blanket. or something.
I don't think it's all about the "tunes" for him, I'm sure he'll tell you the same.
Did you sign up just to slag them ;)
but good on them for getting away with their very own rock n roll swindle.
i think it was the first one i heard. if you're still not convinced, fair enough.
I listened to the entire album. It's 45 minutes of absolutely nothing. NOTHING! There is no progression whatsoever. Nothing at all happens the entire album. There are no tempo changes. It is complete and utter garbage.
There is plenty of progression. Alice starts out as a quite haunting guitarpiece and ends as soothing brassbased jazz. yeah it takes it time to get there, but thats still progression in my book.
Yeah its an incredibly slow album, but a lot of things happens.
That I am judging it based on it being a massive critical success. A perfect score here? Really? How does one even stay awake and pay attention to the entire album? It is worse than Ghosts by NIN. I kept listening to see if anything at all interesting happened, yet it never did. I'm not knocking the musicianship of the band...they could be immensely talented. Sadly they've decided to write the most boring 17 minute songs I've ever heard. I guess I am just astounded this is getting perfect scores.
But was bored to tears by Ghosts
So do we pay so much attention to what reviewers say that we judge an album based on what they thought of it? Isn't that like deciding to hate an album because someone you know who's a prick likes it? Course I could be biased here due to digging Sunn o))) so much. I dare say if you were bad mouthing belle and sebastian I'd be nodding sagely in agreement.
I can easily see why people find it boring. It just annoys me when they claim nothing happens.
If you don't get it, you don't get it. Claiming it to be shit really just comes across as frustration at your own inability to understand. It beggars belief really - do you sit around saying "I just don't like peanut butter, it's shit, it's just peanuts and oil. Where's a good place to start?" after eating a sandwich? People can have different tastes outside a false good/bad framework. "Not my thing" is the far more appropriate response.
(We could get into a debate about the parameters of art which confine the boundaries of 'good' or 'bad' (short answer: there aren't any because there's no such thing)).
bad = JF.
for writing such a pompous post. We have a democratic right to express our view - this band is shit, some people think that. Seriously. fuck off.
maybe I'd have tried to be a little more diplomatic but I do agree with your general point, his post stinks of pretention and self importance.
Kissinginkansas - if a concept such as 'shit' really existed, can you perhaps elucidate where the dividing line between that judgment and mere unfamiliarity/incomprehension might exist?
JohnnyZaza - Of course you have a right to express your view, but my point is that some people seem unable to discern the difference between "I don't like it" and "It's bad"/"It's shit"/"It's poorly done" etc. Both benefit from explanation but the latter requires it, at least if that viewpoint is to have any currency in a debate (by virtue of the fact that it makes claims towards objectivity, whereas "I don't like it" by nature imposes no such statements).
GalacticStar3ruption - Maybe my first post did "stink" of pretension and self importance, but there is a difference between pretentious and incorrect, and I'd be more interested in your opinion of the validity of my statement (and more importantly, why) than on the rather irrelevant point of whether it seems self important.
especially if they're quite avant-garde like Sunn O))). It's only an opinion, it's not as though anyone has made several threads putting down the band, every negative thread about this band will be by a different user. It would be a terrible shame if the only criticism of a band you could use was "it's not really my thing", how boring would that be?
^ lad's got a point. it should pretty much go without saying that everything expressed around here is an opinion, no matter how vehement it might be. the more vehemnt ones are the more entertaining ones, imo.there's no need to enter into a debate about subjecticity every time
FUCKS SAKE MY KEYBOARD IS RETARDED
you've just gotta call it bad with some style and creativity... not just say "that's wank" or "these guys are fucktards". Come on!!!
Give us a reason, a decent well thought-out reason and we, the people, will accept it. Don't take the time and you'll be called out for what you are...
that's a fair point ac.
vehement = good word. Like it. Going to use it more in conversation.
the opening post doesn't say a lot but it's not as though he's just been saying "shit shit, nah it's shit" constantly.
I was replying to you... and my point stands... he didn't take the time and thus got hounded by people with too much time who would have otherwise gone, 'yeah, good point'.
but you are talking about him.
I suppose that can be put down to laziness and perplexity.
Having now listened through the album 3 times, I can say that my initial opinions still stand. I don't find it at all effectively atmospheric. I think that some t music is accomplished and undoubtedly worthwhile, so it's not like that umbrella is where the problem lies; i just find this album so wholly underwhelming, unambitious and breathtakingly flat that I can't understand where an 89 average on metacritic has stemmed from.
I've tried reading the reviews to see where people have located its worth, yet i'm not convinced. I find it quite the antithesis of what reviewers have been saying.
However, i recognise that they *must* be doing something right, i'm just not necessarily "getting" it. If everyone "got" everything, it'd be somewhat dull. So hey, i'm a cog.
I don't find it at all effectively atmospheric either! I don't think I could fault the ambition though, they are trying loads of different stuff in comparison with most of their albums. Just ain't quite working for me. Apart from that bit at the end at the transition into the
....Alice Coltrane style bit at the end
that I saw them at ATp (Chirtmas 2002?) and was a bit flummoxed although I admired the aesthetic. However Monoliths and Dimensions is where it falls into place for me - what an extreme, touching and uncompromising album! Sort of the next logical step from MBV for me. Got "Altar" on the strength of it and would agree that it's probably the best place to start. Am also loving Orakulum at the moment
isn´t music and art in general about subjectivity? Sad world if we all liked the same stuff.
99.9% of the world's population would probably agree with you if they heard Sunn o))) so you're hardly going out on a limb here. Was it really worth starting a thread for? I guess an (admittedly excessive) 10/10 rating is going to provoke a backlash.
I think it's a shame when people feel the need to start threads just saying 'that's shit' with no particular reason, especially when it's something vaguely avant-garde, and therefore of a minority interest anyway.
I'm not saying people should only comment on stuff they like but I think people should post negative views when they've got a good reason or interest in doing so. I've been a bit negative about the latest Sunn 0))) album on here because I think it's a bit embarassing in parts and a wasted opportunity in others but admittedly I prefer the earlier stuff where very little happens at all. At least I know their music and have reasons for thinking this. If I feel that a band I love is coasting or has taken a direction I don't like (recent Sonic Youth or TVoTR spring to mind), I'm going to say so but I wouldn't dream of starting a thread with the subtext 'why the hell do you lot like this stuff?'. That just seems utterly pointless and slightly self-centred to me.
Or what? If you don't like something then you count your lucky stars it's bound for failure? There are some really popular bands on this site like Los Campesinos that I cannot stand but I don't find myself hoping they are destined for commercial failure. They just don't register in my musical sphere of interest so I choose not to comment on them here, either positively or negatively.
You clearly are not interested in avant garde music of whatever kind as evidenced by your Wire top 50 thread. In fact I've consciously tried to avoid responding to any of your threads so as not to fuel your ego even further. I do like the kind of music that mag covers and I'm more than aware why most of it is minority interest stuff at best, so fucking what. I'm genuinely interested in why you bother posting some of the shit that you do.
My point was that I recognise why most people don't like it and I'm cool with that. What pisses me off that some people feel the need to tell me how shit it is, even though what they think is probably reflective of the majority of the record-buying public anyway. What's the point. Does it make you feel better?
I don't see my musical taste as more sophisticated than someone else's because I like free jazz or whatever. In fact I hate musical snobbery of all kinds. To draw a parallel I respect people like Mark Kermode who are very opinionated but reflective enough to judge films based on the audience they are aimed at and aren't afraid to say that High School Muscial 3 is good if that's what they think.
Given that there have been tonnes of posts about how great Sunn O))) are too I don't think there's any kind of 'proof' there that it's shit, just that's it's 'marmite' music. You love it or hate it - and it's dark and sludgy to boot.
Even within a niche audience like DiS this band represent a further niche. Plenty of metal fans hate Sunn O))) and this isn't even a specialist noise or metal site. I just think the amount of press they get (no doubt partly due to the novelty aspects of their performance) make them seem bigger than they really are and therefore a bigger target for criticism.
I see your point about whether there is any difference between telling someone you love or hate a band/album. To me there is. Only because the former is really a way of opening up a discussion between like-minded people whereas the other seems to be a waste of time. 'Let's all talk about how much we hate X'? I don't get it. That's just my opinion though.
Actually I wasn't suggesting that they were coasting on this record, far from it in fact. I just worded my argument badly. I still think it's pretty poor to start a thread purely to tell the world how shit you think a band is, especially when that's not exactly an uncommon view. Even on DiS I would say Sunn O))) fans are technically in a minority, they just shout louder about this music because they are passionate about it.
On a plus, Monoliths and Dimensions is growing on me, especially since we've had some shitty weather after a few weeks. I'm especially liking Cydonia at the moment. The arrangements, including the conch shells on the latter half of Agharta are superb, really evocative of Psycho and other horror-flicks, I just think that vocal is too in the foreground and detracts from it, shame. Actually there is a hell of a lot of dynamics on this record. I really don't get the 'it's all one long note' criticisms. True of Grimm Robe but not this one. Once the grim and icy winter takes hold I reckon M&D will have edged its way into my top 10.
One of my favourite Coltrane albums. I can't get the mindset of someone from that era of jazz being interested in these weird-ass monk guys playing doom metal. It makes me wonder whether 'Trane would be exploring Interstellar Space over the top of some drop-D drone if he were still of this earth.
That's just when you want to go see a Grimm Robe show too. Makes our grim and icy winters (which are neither grim nor icy really) sound pretty fucking weak.
any music where the process is more important than the product = bumstainery.
No one bothered replying on the social board (apart from one troll post) but the orignal point still stands.
This band are Marmite. Similarly to Wolf Eyes, they get an odd amount of exposure considering the niche appeal of their music but in my opinion they have taken what Earth did in the 90s to a pinnacle. And having seen them live a few times they can be both mesmerising and unintentionally hilarious. Maybe barely deciperable ultra distorted snail-paced chord progressions isn't for everyone.
Earth 2 actually makes me feel something.
clickety click, Spotify...
The last 3 Earth releases are nothing like early 90s Earth though. Love the new incarnation though- Ry Cooder tinged goodness
Thumbs up, but nothing i think i'd ever find myself saying "oh WOW, i really must listen to Earth now".
Still, it certainly has growing potential.
like I said Earth 2 make me feel all new-agey. It's like an out of body experience while doing satanic yoga. idk.
Which is probably why I prefer the early Sunn stuff. M&D is growing on me though...
but the same people who claim to deal in fairness don't blink an eye when someone drops lines like "obvious genius" in relation to the same thing? Bat shit.
didn't post though :(
Obvious genius MY EYE
if you dont like it, question why you dont like it. if you think you can do better proove us wrong. fucking forum snobbery tossers.
oh and ive had my time playing in bands, i now work for them. are you still in Demo-Land?
Type What Every Music Argument Guy Types-land.
but come on, that 'let's see you do any better' thing is even worse than just calling something shit. It's an internet music forum merrrr
dude, i was watching gigs, fingering girls and listening to killer music in 1993...you were still swimming up your mums vaginal walls.
also your profile age says 25... you were fingering girls at the age of 9? fucking weirdo.
better believe it buddy.
google search for 9 year old
SEXYTIME FOR HEX BREAKER! what a ridiculous human being you must be.
no wait don't tell me... you were pulling high school girls. and your uncle is an eighth dan black belt in karate.
1992 and 94 were much better years than 93.
it's my first ever intranets pwnage.
opinions have been thrown back and forth from persons with varying degrees of appreciation for them. Additionally, my dislike for it has been explained subsequent to the initial post (several times at that).
I've listened through it 4 times now, so hardly like i didn't give it a bash. I don't see why saying you think something is shit is snobbery any more than people saying it holds majectic beauty.
Roll on Supersonic baby!
I really need to get my act together and buy a ticket since I seriously think it might sell out this year.
if only there was a facebook *like* button here...
"let's sound like Sunn O))) for a laugh" so we tuned everything down and made a hell of a noise. This shit can be made by ANYONE.
and No one has managed to convince me that SunnO))) are wirth listening to. How can anyone with a straightface, no irony and a lack of pretention actually claim to like this band??
I mean putting aside what you think about their actual music, does it matter that something is easy to play? I thought the whole point of free jazz and punk were that they were movements that didn't necessarily depend on having a great deal of musical ability.
I agree that the guitar parts are probably a piece of piss to recreate but their is a great deal of musicianship on that latest album, even if it is the work of the many collaborators. Miles Davis wasn't an amazingly gifted trumpet player, he just had a nice tone, a strong musical vision and was able to put together the right groups at the right time to help him realise it. To me Sunn O))) do the same thing.
you do actually need to be able to play an instrument
you couldn't hand someone who had never played before a guitar and ask them to play something like sunn0))), as they wouldn't know anything about down tuning or using shit loads of amps.
this thread has made me want to hear the new sunn album. i hope it's good.
Boooooooooooooooom (hold for 10 seconds)
Boooooooooooooom (1 octave lower, hold for 8.4 seconds)
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM (pitch higher, 10 seconds)
Boooooooooooiiiiinnnnngggggg (someone drops their guitar on the floor and picks it up 4.8 seconds later)
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM (a recovery note played from the salvaged guitar, lasting 6.4 seconds)
repeat for 40 minutes, occasionally having a violin play 3 notes and a guy who got so bored in the studio he was doing voices from The Exorcist, only to realise he'd accidentally left a mic on.
ha ha! :)
they could do it
No. I've tried. Sounded nothing like 'em. Sounded like a boring band messing around at practice.
going "man I can't believe people are actually paying money for this hahahaha".
all of you, everyone in this thread, i love you all <3
can't stand sunn o))) one little bit meself, but there you go
I done it and I could do it again. I have no doubt that they're technically gifted musicians, as evidenced by Burning Witch, but to hail Sunn 0))) as anything other than a droning noise that a monkey could reproduce with the proper equipment is delusional.
and it sounded to me like a guy playing a guitar and shouting about ten miles away on the side of a hill in the wind. (It was Black One, if you're interested)
I really wanted to like it. My gf likes them and I like her, so I wanted to make the triangle complete. But I just couldn't. I'd still like to see them live, because that's supposed to be a pretty fucking brilliant experience.
She's got impeccable taste, even if I don't agree with it all. From Neurosis to the Coctaeu Twins and everything in between.
And she's beautiful. Obviously.
Keep your hands off!
I'm sure your wife's taste is just as impeccable and she's just as beautiful. Judging by your photo, how could she not be?!
Topical European elections joke. Don't look it up. It isn't that funny.
it's not even a band, it's amps !
im gonna start a band called moonna!!! or marshallu,,, and it's gonna be great.