are we all agreed that contemporary jazz is the lamest music ever?
any chance to post a 24 hour party people quote as well: "Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does."
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well thats false
Fuck Buttons
these are all damn good
Acoustic Ladyland
Polar Bear
Fulborn Teversham
Basquiat Strings
Curios
Soil and 'Pimp' Sessions
I don't really know about any more though
That'll do for starters
Good list. Missing Soil and Pimp and Glastonbury a couple of years ago is still a major source of regret.
If you like Basquiat Strings then John Zorn's Masada albums are definitely worth getting hold of. There's hundreds of them mind you.
.
soil & pimp at glasto were amazing. hot damn
my group supported basquiat strings recently they were siiIIIIiiiiick
Kenny G is fucking immense!
you retard
who me, or Kenny G?
that rhymes....
I am gonna put that awesome rhyming into a contemporary jazz piece in the style of kenny G.
I am on fire today!
no u
every time i have the misfortune of hearing any modern day jazz it makes me want to puke and then fall asleep
me eh?
Kenny Gs Breathless album is the biggest selling instrumental album of all time and I think the biggest jazz seller of all time with a cool 15 million units shifted!
you haven't really got the hang of this whole indented reply system, have you?
Easy listening Jazz maybe
That or reggae
...
^Racist.
...
Yeah, but let's bear in mind that 24 Hour Party People was proper gash, as was the house and trance music the characters in that film preferred.
happy mondays were gash, yes
...
It was ALL gash. ALL.
joy division, gash?
can of worms. take it to another thread please
buzzcocks?
sex pistols? GASH? strong words, man.
the sex pistols were gash
lol. there was a thread about how horrible punk was not too long ago. keep it out of this thread please.
i think tunde was thinking of Human Traffic
i was too, for some reason
How dare you.
Pills 'n' Thrills and Bellyaches is a work of genius. A flawless album.
Funky House
i listened to this the other day
and i realised that modern jazz can indeed be incredible:
http://www.myspace.com/petefrasermusic
Ha!
What I also meant to say...
...but pressed enter and submitted accidentally, was that if length of tune is a measure of quality, I'm amongst the best jazz musicians in the world.
Also, Chris, thanks for checking it out! I'll keep you pasted for future gigs and, as I said, playing wise, my door is always open.
That sounded rude.
some of Spring Heel Jack's
forays into freejazz with matthew shipp etc have been purdy good.
happy mondays were not gash.
i trust we'll disagree on the jazz as well then
I love
The live Record with Matt Shipp, William Parker, Evan Parker and J Spaceman. Great music.
24 Hour Party People is an alright film, but it's full of fucking idiots
ain't the gospel.
I've seen lots of good modern jazz stuff live.
In summation: you're a massive idiot.
BYE!
yours is not generally a musical opinion i trust anyway
if someone will post something that they genuinely believe is great and will potentially change my mind, then i will listen and give it a fair chance. THAT'S A CHALLENGE.
...
How would you know?
how would i know if it changed my mind?
Are we all agreed that threads like this are boring?
threads like what exactly?
Hopelessly generalistic,
negative, opinionated, unresolvable, unconstructive?
I'm not trying to be rude or anything like that, but the entire premise of it seems to be you putting your cards on the table straight off, so it's a bit of a losing battle discussionwise.
I'm also guessing that you don't ordinarily go out of your way to check out much music that could come under the umbrella of Contemporary Jazz (which, when Kenny G and Polar Bear have been mentioned in the same thread already, is basically absurd as a category of any meaning) so it's also pretty difficult to talk about because there's no mutual point of reference, so it just ends up as lots of people saying "no, I'm right!" like so much of the rest of the internet.
You're very right
but the threads you're describing do make up the majority of the DiS boards.
"This band is awesome"
"No they're fucking gash"
"shut up you filthy slag"
"just cos you like getting fucked by horses"
.....Yeaah that sums it up
sorry for having an opinion, it won't happen again
there's no point getting defensive now - you started this
What people are pointing out (and what you are obviously dodging, cause its clear to everyone but you) is that you see, to have no basis of knowledge of this music to make this opinion. You haven't cited any records or artists - I don't even know if your idea of contemporary jazz is the same as mine.
*seem
it wasn't defensive, it was sarcasm
:)
besides, having no or little knowledge of a genre of music should not equal being annoyed about said genre
a couple of years ago i knew little or nothing about genres that i listen to now, yet it caught my interest enough for me to give it a go. when it comes to jazz however, it all seems wanky and pointless and well, lame.
Seconded
Post Rock is the lamest music evah!!!!!!
Innit
you make a good point
HEY DICKFAIL
way to generalise. Arse.
And that film you're quoting from is fucking appalling. Double arse.
DUHHHH muh?
this is pretty much my favourite post ever
mainly for the sexist first line.
huhyousaywha?
Surely inventive swearing (not something I made up I am sorry to say) relating to the male anatomy instead of the female is merely enlightened behaviour. I can't say I can see why it should be considered sexist. If I was to refer to the original poster as a Cunt - well, would you have complained that was sexist? Can you explain, please?
oh thanks for that, i now realise the horrible errors of my ways
you have now effectively convinced me that new school jazz is in fact amazing. thanks bro!
You're
either completely insane or this is just a cheap provocation.
it's not really meant as a cheap provocation, it's just an opinion
no one has really done any kind of serious attempt at proving me wrong as of yet
Boring. (you)
Comments like this never fail to annoy me. Like people who say that they hate reggae on the basis of having heard UB40.
What the fuck is 'contemporary jazz' anyway? There's a world of difference between The Thing and Curtis Stigers.
She must have heard some...
elevator music and some Kenny G and decided that's what 'contemporary jazz' is.
see below
i've not sat down and listened to one thing and decided on the basis of that, that jazz is shit. it's a feeling that has been building up for years and years, and in general what i have understood to be jazz is something which grates on me intensely.
DEYZ JUST MAKING IT UP THOUGH
i could do that, you just have to squeal into the saxophone and flap the buttons randomly. Reggae, what's that all about then? Just a load of potheads innit
^racist
Good call on Burning Spear though
guess what i find boring, eh?
it just seems
small minded and generalist and negative. And very unattractive.
I prefer to work with a different attitude: there is good in all genres of music. It's true.
unattractive? lol
of course there's relative good in every genre. and by all means, feel free to post some here that you feel confident will convince me that i'm wrong, if that's how you feel. i know there are names of bands posted, but i'm guessing whatever i happen to stumble upon first on youtube isn't necessarily going to be representative of what people love about them.
Portico Quartet
Fucking rule. Thanks.
I don't know much about it
but Acoustic Ladyland's brilliance alone tells me your wrong, there must be other great modern jazz stuff around.
was going to mention these
damn good they are. damn good
out of interest
what artists are you talking about? Is "contemporary jazz" some sort of particular genre i haven't heard of, or do you mean jazz released recently? In which case, i put it to you that this is like someone listening to Kasabian and saying "load of bollocks this rock music. In the bin you go"
hi douchebag.
this thread was just inspired by some godawful jazz performance on tv, and it got me thinking, "hey. all jazz music i ever hear makes me feel exactly the same way, and that's not a good thing". i like old school blues-y jazz stuff, but any jazzy stuff apart from that which has ever been played to me has made me cringe.
well, i don't know what you've been listening to
and of course, there's no accounting for taste. But for me, jazz as a concept is the perfect combination of expression, imagination, talent and groove. Sometimes it doesn't come off all together, but when it does, when there's a fire and an energy running through then it's amazing. And a lot of the best non-jazz music has been inspired by that sense of freedom and passion.
I think you have to take Tony Wilson's musical opinion with a pinch of salt. The guy spent a large portion of his later years watching nothing but Channel U
i know, but it's a very quotable film
hey!
you say "lame" above. You need fierce. It isn't all widdly beardy sax soloing, as I presume you've seen.
Fierce. Download a little - have you heard this?
http://mog.com/sageturk/blog/178109
i give you my word i will get back to you on this tomorrow
Someone basically nailed it earlier
with the comment about taking Kasabian as representatives of 'rock music' and chalking a line through everything with a loud guitar.
Well, we would've nailed it, but yu haven't even gone so far as to give an example of what you dislike.
You say it's been building up for years, but we're still talking about a concept as substantial as smoke: If you;re talking about Kenny G or Snake Davis then we heartily agree, but if you're talking about late Miles or Branford Marsalis or Evan Parker (or a great host of other incredible people) then we're on a totally different page.
The trouble is, you seem to be (not saying you are. You might be Pete Wareham for all I know) coming from the viewpoint of not having invested much time or interest in something and then denouncing it on the basis you didn't like the sound of it.
That's all very well, but I'd probably say the same about Shakespeare if I read some out of context.
The problem, as you can probably tell I'm inferring, would be with my perspective being poorly suited to understanding Shakespeare, not with Shakespeare's work itself.
When I first heard John Coltrane, all I heard was noise; I had no sensible frame of reference and, cause he'd been so heartily recommended to me, I was really disappointed.
Some 12 years later, the guy is basically the centre of my musical life.
At no point was he 'lame' or 'untalented', but that collossal ability didn't mean I needed to enjoy every note. Even now there's stuff I can't get my head around that I know will be a bit clearer later.
I'd agree that there are a few bullshitters out there, but I don't think there are many corners of music free of that particular charge.
i've made no attempt at 'hiding' the fact that i haven't 'invested much time or interest'
but that's precisely because i've never been given a single reason to do so. and you're right again, i couldn't single out a couple of artists and go like 'this is what i dislike', again because it has never seemed to be worthwile to actually make that kind of effort. but at some point, as you say, you'll have known nothing about your current favourite band/film/book/food/whatever. but there will be just something there which will have attracted you to it and made you think that hey, i should have this a chance. the trouble is, what modern jazz has ever made its way into my ears has, to me, had no such attractiveness that i've seen any kind of reason to give it a chance. this works in much the same way that i don't have to eat a bowl full of rocket salad to know that i don't like it, or read five of jane austen's book to know that i don't like her writings. see what i'm getting at here?
now, i'm going to listen to what cumface posted above a bit later today when i've got the time. in the meantime, you're more than welcome to post something more to prove to me just how wrong i am.
Again
Jane Austen and Rocket Salad don't work, cause they're both incredibly specific.
That's like citing Wynton Marsalis (in the place of Jane Austen) and Black Codes (From the Underground) (In the place of Rocket Salad).
The more I discuss this, the more I realise I'm pissing into the wind lightly with this one, but it's only cause if someone started a topic that said "contemporary rock is lame" it'd be be rightly dismissed as absurd, because such a claim is completey meaningless.
Recommendations wise, I come up against the same wall slightly, cause I don't know what you're really talking about (The Kenny G vs Kenny Garrett problem, if you will).
As with anything, withoud foundations and a bit of background, you're going to struggle, so you should really check out the Miles Davis record Kind of Blue, some Charlie Parker from the Dial Sessions,Count Basie's band during the Lester Young/Coleman Hawkins era and then finally some stuff from the Miles 60s quintet (Nefertiti, ESP or Four and More ore all mindblowing).
In terms of people around today, what is called the 'jazz scene' ismore varied than ever, cause it encompasses versions of everything that's gone before along with the various fusions and innovations the now.
Of the brits, I'd heartily reccomend anything that involves David Okumu, Tom Herbert, Sebastian Rochford, Django Bates, Byron Wallen, Shabaka Hutchings, Nathaniel Facey (particularly his band, Empirical) and endless others...
Amongst Americans, there's barely even any point inbeginning a list, but anyonewith the surname Marsalis, Joshua Redman, Joe Lovano, John Scofield, Wayne Shorter, Bill Frizzell and Brad Mehldau are allworld changers in their own right.
My only real advice though is to come to it knowing that it might not all make much sense at first; to assume that, because you don't like the sound of something, or aren't particularly ready (NOT as in you're not clever enough or whatever, but that it doesn't yet comeinto your musical field of vision) then a whole chunk of badly defined music is somehow inadequate (or lame as you put it) verges on the blisteringly arrogant, and I'm sure that is something that, realistically speaking, that's something you ain't.
how can it be worse...
...than uninspired, jangly, libertinish indie cack?!
The Art History lecturer at college once gave us a 45 minuite preview of his avant-gard contemporary jazz performance with his friend
one of the worst things i've heard in my life
That was you?
How behind the times of me.
Ok, this one's in B
Keep the cymbals splashy and let's take that bassline for a walk.
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
I hope some of the responses put your mind at rest
I'm sure Whiterussian was just on a wind-up but there are plenty of pro-jazz DiSsers. For me Coltrane is the centre of the musical universe but I've seriously had to develop my understanding of his music so I can totally understand why some people don't like it. Jazz and 'rock' (ie music with guitars) exist on different planes for me. I can't even conceptualise whether Interstellar Space is a better album than Daydream Nation even though I know Sonic Youth are heavily into free jazz. I love them both for different reasons.
I find most people gradually absorb jazz into their lives (sorry for sounding like some kind of evangelical christian) starting with the more easier on the ear or extreme examples. The beauty of Coltrane (or Miles) is that their music incorporates the most mainstream and radical examples of jazz. Personally I worked backwards having grown up with the sounds of Massacre/ Brotzmann/ Last Exit/ John Zorn/ James Blood Ulmer/ Cecil Taylor. I recently got my first Dave Brubeck album, I have finally shed all vestiges of jazz snobbery.
Love Supreme is definitely a good call. The perfect balancing point between the trad and avant jazz (I might also throw in Out To Lunch by Eric Dolphy and anything by Mingus).
in that case
your mouth is full of jazz
since it's a swear word
i would like to see what kind of music you yank yer 3 incher to
To be fair, WR
I can't remember ever enjoying a piece of jazz music in my life. I assume modern jazz is worse than the old stuff. Yes, fucktards, it IS possible to dislike whole musical genre. If I have never heard any jazz that I like then I can safely say that I don't like jazz. Jazz sucks.OMG Im soo cloose minded!