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other than oasis (although this is debatable in itself) can anyone name a band that have actually "sold out"???
I've heard a lot lately that Kings Of Leon have sold out...
Personally I don't understand the whole concept. A lot of people say that once a band starts aiming to play bigger venues and exposing more people to their music then they're selling out but I personally don't see a problem with that. Unless of course you have spent your whole musical career saying that's what you were against. But selling out isn't really a big deal if one of my favourite bands get bigger and earns more money than good for them I say.
include any act that went on the OC.
They made a big thing about the whole independent label scene and about acting ethically. Then they sign to EMI (a division of Thorn EMI which was a part of the industrial military machine).
Though they shafted them by splitting immediately after, so maybe not.
RATM talked a good game but then they signed with the evil empire and became a horrible set of hypocrisies and tainted sloganeering, in my eyes anyway. I lost soooooooooo much respect for them when I found this out (admittedly I was 17 and took my music slightly too seriously)
making a big thing about being on an independent. in fact they argued with rough trade over just about everything and that was one of the major reasons for their split
and major labels in particular.
"I am quite pleased that we have become successful with Rough Trade, though, rather than any major record company -- it seems to increase the value of snubbing the industry. By not doing videos, by not paying for album promotion, by not taking advertising space... all that's rather unique." Morrissey 1984
after shooting multiple videos and having his album promoted. silly morrissey
1) Compromising the ideals on which the band was founded.
2) Striving for an ever more bland and radio-friendly accessible sound.
I submit........ The Manic Street Preachers.
I'm no fan, but surely they're exactly where they always aimed to be?
noel visited no.10 in 97 as part of "cool Britannia"
Liam and Damon Albarn refused by the way
I'm no expert on Oasis, but surely their whole 'thing' was being a band of the people, working class etc, who'd been critical about the tories. At the time you could argue the same thing about the incoming Labour party. Seems like an acceptable match to me.
almost entirely, the only reason i said exept oasis was to avoid the whole topic being dominated by them and nothing else
It's just something that the fans that liked them when they were small made up upon realising that they're not part of a cool little clique anymore
going on a reality tv show?
i cant believe "H" sold out like that
they had demos that were wildly available of some pretty out there stuff, like a hardcore mars volta. instead of doing those, they released a couple of albums of increasingly radio friendly songs (which included re-workings of the songs on their debut where the originals were literally transformed into radio friendly pop singles). admittedly they eventually released proper versions of those demos 2 albums down the line, but they were slowed down and generally neutered. bad form fall of troy.
'Literally transformed into radio friendly pop singles' is a HUGE stretch. Have some perspective, their newer stuff has less of an edge, but you really can't call it 'pop' at all, it's still very inaccessible to the majority of the (boring) listening public. All you're saying is you like their early stuff more, which is frustrating for you but hardly crime on their part.
although I think that may have been the whole point of them to begin with.
Even had their own credit card.
A friend of mine used to love them and gets quite animated when talking about how they turned into a pile of crap to sell more records. I quite like their cheesy riffs but, y'know.
Wash you're mouth out.
it's getting me down my love. Like a cat in a bag, waiting to drown, this time I'm coming down.
I wanted to post that.
But then I disagree with the whole concept that a band can 'sell out' in the first place. So you and me are gonna have a fight in any case, I reckon.
stuck in the middle of an album doesn't constitute an abandoning of ideals and ethics then?
If you're in a band, then do whatever you want with your music. I don't give a damn whether you earn yourselves £20k for selling your tunes to a Lenor campaign, or sign to a larger record company. I don't tend to get drawn in by the mystique and aura around bands though. I'm a hard-hearted young fella.
Bands say a lot of shit. That's how they get big followings in the first place, which is why most people want to be in bands. No-one dreams of headlining the Hope & Anchor. Everyone dreams of headlining Reading or wherever. Then, y'know, things change. That Manics grew up, Chumbawamba realised they needed some money to survive, Moby fell in love with Peugeot cars (possibly). I'm just all about the music. Maaaaaaaaaan.
Or does the prospect of a band knowing that they have sold songs in the past make them more likely to go down a wishy-washy song-selling route in the future?
And b): again, not really. I've always said that no matter who the band is, they will ALWAYS let you down at some point. There isn't a band in the stratosphere with a 100% knockout back catalogue, no matter what anyone says. And if the certain band, whoever they may be, deliver a stinker, then so beit. It's not as if I only ever listen to one band and have no other options.
I find the idea of loving a band slightly bizarre at times. I fully admit that bands I purport to adore have released some utter garbage that I will never listen to. But the good stuff makes it all worthwhile. And if I liked them for a reason, I would hope, and assume, that they will at some point do something brilliant again.
'Selling out' as is, means nothing to me. I find the idea of people getting irate about...say, White Stripes doing a song for Coca-Cola, as bizarre as people who think that the way to protest against Western political policy is to burn a flag. It's hardly a dagger to the heart, it just makes me grin.
Most of the time I just like songs for the songs they are, not the romantic attachment that the band who recorded them bring. All the bands you love can let you down by recording songs you don't like, and all the bands you hate can surprise you be recording songs that you think are brilliant. And that really is all that I care about.
and I pretty much agree
however, I still find the gross commercialisation of an artform at the expense of any concept of artistic integrity or potency to be a distressing thing
if music is considered en masse as a commodity then where does it stand as an art form? Won't artists shun music entirely as being a corrupted form human expression? And therefore won't music as a whole be debased as a result?
were forced to do what people tell them to do.
Doesn't mean they weren't making art or that their art was corrupt.
Just that they had to adapt their artistic integrity to what the people ordering the art could deem acceptable !
The difference in current music is that a band, like say... Coldplay... don't have to please one people but millions of people...
to have a (one) Patron means to have a human relationship which stimulates the production of art and informs the artistic conversation while at the same time allowing the artist to develop technique and style
plus, the Patron would in most cases be extremely knowledgeable about art
Coldplay on the other hand are having their artistic conversation with a market and what is worse is that all other bands in their wake are somehow supposed to strike up a conversation with that same faceless market
how is this done? by invoking the lowest common denominator and judging merit on economics and short term recoupables
now we are in a digital age that's gone a step further in actually using the fuel of music markets and demographics en masse to power the sale of their own technologies and/or business models
but yes, that's a very big difference.
And the biggest problem might be the suits in the industry thinking that they know better than the bands what the people might want !
Your last 3 lines are so right. It's "amazing" how much emails you receive when you have a low-level band asking you to listen and post about a band... And to see how many bloggers actually do it !
I've heard this Daniel Ek guy (the spotify CEO) talking on the radio and appearing on TV and he doesn't actually give a crap about music, he talks about 'having the idea to create a revenue stream from the underlying demand for music'
He's a pure and simple businessman aiming to get rich by attempting to monopolise an emerging marketplace.
Only wanting to make money thanks to other people work.
But that was the same with many agents or promoters !
New technologies just mean new people wanting to make their share...
usually means accepting doing things in a commercial way...
Call it growing up or selling out...
Or is it just their label ?
and would assume that it would depend on the specific contracts of the individuals
but I do know that last year two film directors in Sweden successfully sued a commercial TV station for showing their films with advert breaks
who gave them money to make the movie and then sold the movie to the TV station...
Bad career move probably but integrity at his best !
Artist could probably sue ( depends of their contract ) against spotify's adverts but at the risk of their career...
Selling Out ? Maybe...
Compromising ? Surely !
of Swedish films to TV media and I think the directors argued that commercials immediately before or after the film are acceptable but that inserting adverts was equivalent to making unauthorised cuts or edits and therefore a breach of copyright
anyway, it was an interesting case
As for spotify, I simply make the point to counter some of the recent arguments I've heard that it's 'the saviour of the music industry' when really it's quite a horrible concept on an artistic level
can't be saving the industry...