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i mean, some of them say they do, but they don't really
they haven't got a great deal of time left for other interests.
Is it wrong to sort of agree? You know just a little bit?
so they take up a male interest to try and intrigue guys. nice try ladies, but i've got your number!!!
and talk about PEOPLE who don't like music that much. i've always thought that a lot of people who claim to "like" music don't really *like* music, properly. i know people who download vast amounts and they'll listen to an album once and be like "yeah that was great!" and then never listen again and move onto the next thing. i don't have a particularly impressive record collection or anything resembling in-depth musical knowledge but, y'know, when i like stuff i like to actually invest something in it. i dunno, maybe people just process music in different ways, but i don't fully trust anyone who doesn't listen to things obsessively on repeat once in a while
also, this was definitely not the thread for a srs post
you can't just hijack my thread with your boring meanderings on why you're better at liking music than other people. this is about GIRLS. GIRL TALK ONLY FROM HERE OUT PLEASE
and no not the greg gillis, he blows
insert more hilarious ironic misogyny here! something about kitchens! lol!
but i'm assuming it has something to do with apologies. apology accepted man :)
take me now
no wonder you were trying to ruin the thread, typical female misdirection
make your choice!
music fannism is a direct result of a lonely, sexless emptiness deep within the soul. And girls can fill the hole with relationships and human contact. Except the ugly ones, natch
cos i think women are maybe conditioned not to talk in a GEEKY way about an INTEREST. I do know girls with massive massive record and cd collections and/or indepth music knowledge who also happen to play at least two instruments.
i just think women talk about it differently to men?
i dunno, i'm sure i have pretended to be interested in stuff to get a boyfriend, but it hasn't lasted that long...who wants to date a musical spod anyway?!
i mean, some of them say they do, but they don't really
I love these threads <3
Girls are pretty; that's all that matters.
if only we could stick to what's important in this materialistic culture :(
I just hope that the ladies who've posted either have dinner well under control or are working class types who feasted upon turkey twizzlers in front of a rented plasma screen earlier in the evening.
Music taste: Radiohead will probably always be my favourite band, but also:- Elbow, Joy Division, Blur, Pink Floyd, Franz Ferdinand, The Streets, Portishead, Arab Strap, James, Super Furry Animals, The Beatles, The Auteurs, British Sea Power, Pulp, Black Box Recorder and so on.
i'm gonna loose ma nutz huh? :(
...experience informs me that there may be an element of truth in this generalisation. Of course, I've met a few women who have good knowledge of music, sizable collections and portray a real sense of emotional investment in their tunes. The problem is, they appear to be a lot rarer than blokes with the same interests, and they get rarer still, the older you get. By the time you're reaching 30, you'd be hard pressed to find any. Most girls seem to leave a serious interest in music behind where as blokes are more likely to hold onto it as some vestige of their childhood they're loath to give up.
I don't think that's a criticism. Women tend to able to put their sense of self-worth into the relationships they build with others and the achievements they make throughout their life. They don't need to envelope themselves in music (or any other hobby) as some badge of honour or an essential aspect of their identity.
I have found this as well.
So other things are more important than music but men shy away from this? Do One.
I have two words for you: FUCK OFF.
Not even a safety wink.
I REALLY hope you're a troll.
get out of this thread, this isn't a discussion for bigots
sorry if your frustrations a sensitive issue though.
Men obsess over things, for example; sports, video games, career, cars, tools, the Wire, etc. Not that women don't obsess, but its generally a smaller sample that do. Of course Lazerlife isn't saying EVERY female, but the generalization is a pretty safe one. I've been married three years and my wife loves music, but she just likes what I put on for her (minus Animal Collective), and she never cares to know who its by or any thing about other than it sounds good. I am ready to break down the history of the band and their influences and really she could care less.
Why this is the way it is, I am not sure, but it is the truth (generally speaking). We men love our "stuff".
A true love of men!
It's not sexist so please stop crying.
He makes a good point. I know a lot of lads who have encyclopaedic knowledges of certain styles of music or certain bands.
However, since I've got to Uni I'm more well acquainted with girls than I am boys. I know loads of them. I've met ONE single one that is very interested in music and it's walkingwithwolves off here. That's it.
So clearly, not every girl is disinterested in music, but the ratio of girls being WELL into it (ie. knowing lots about artists and wanting to hear similar stuff) to boys being well into it is very slim.
Again, this isn't sexist, it's just what I've found from my EXTENSIVE knowledge of the female.
it's a bit shit isn't it?
and those numbers are hardly high, girls or boys. I hate the way that people try and quantify the extent to how much they like something, and try to make that seem better than anyone else's tastes.
it is quite depressing for me to find myself talking to/working with boys most of the time, although the new band has 3 girls including myself, all of whom are really into music. also there's a lot of girls who volunteer in the music library too... just MORE boys.
...men will always love their toys and gain a sense of identity from their interests and (interest groups). There's quite a bit of psychological research which supports the view that women are more emotionally secure than men (contrary to what's been popularly thought). Men need interests and jobs and 'stuff' to help them have a sense of self worth, where as women don't. It's this sort of evidence which explains why men are far more likely to top themselves if they become unemployed. At the same time, part of the attraction in really being into music, is a feeling of belonging to a community which shares those interests (that's why most of us are on this forum, I'd guess). Women seem (from my experience) to establish far more emotionally complex social groups based on very different things than exclusive or specialised knowledge and interests.
there's some people agreeing too, which is ridiculous.
what with the constant wooshing noise you must always be hearing
the unremitting sound of your failures! ;D
i mean, seriously
ever had the feeling there's something you're not quite getting?
the post-ironic drivel you seem to be spouting?
godspeed yoblonski, godspeed
Don't really have much to say Si...
Apart from your thread has bombed, and to the general majority you appear to come across as a comical troll.
Night night xxx
how cna i maken ammends!??! i jus... wanted you to liek me :( :( : ( :(
so shut yr mouth!
what YOU gonna do?
I'm sorry if I can't help being cock, but dizzy idiots force me into such situations. Otherwise I'm pretty MOR, so yeah run along now little fanboy you don't want to be nodding off in your lectures tomorrow.
You said 'member'
Essentially to be really into music you have to a bit geeky. (yes thats YOU!) Whether its cars, hifi, Marvel comics, Wisden, football stats or obscure American indie.....the male of the species does it a lot better than the female.
Girls don't do geeky.
...what do women think/ feel about men who are really into music? Is it perceived as lovable and endearing or is it seen as annoying and immature? My missus (appears) to think it's "cute" (her word, not mine), but I don't know how others would feel. An obsession with football, for example, can cause untold turmoil, but you don't tend to hear people getting into domestics on Trisha, if a guy really loves his music.
....that turmoil is probably due to spending every saturday/sunday on the piss travelling up and down the country....
Girls do geeky. In much smaller numbers.
You do though don't you.
its your destiny
her existence definitely supports the "doing it for male attention" hypothesises espoused earlier in the thread
dolly's existence supports the doing-it-for-male-attention hypothesises espoused earlier in the thread
it'd be a pretty damning indictment for the entire gender if she did
i've not been around to see you posting much before
i'm sure you've got lots going for you, you just need the confidence to utilise your good aspects! :)
i've seen these DVDs from Germany...........
...that there is some evidence out there which supports the hypothesis that all men are likely to suffer from a very mild form of autism/ have autistic tendencies. These manifest themselves in such ways as avidly collecting things/ devotion to hobbies. Well, I'm not sure I feel good about that, but maybe it explains things.
then hoe can you call it autism? Autism is an illness or retardation, if it's the norm then it can't be.
I'm a big faker.
I DID NOT NEED DIS TO REITERATE IT
All sarcasm is gone! You faker!
Bizzy has more interesting and harsh music taste than I. You Manc girls love the noise scene don't you!
are already the kind of girls who post on geeky (and largely male-populated) internet forums, and hence there's an inbuilt selection bias. In so far as lazerlife is making an observation of a general trend, rather than a sweeping and rigid generalization, I'd say he's not far wrong. But then again I'm probably an awful misogynist.
every last one. the ones on drownedinsound are the WORST for it. when women eliminate the need for men to procreate with music will cease to exist in this world
is that because music should only be used for sexytime?
and with them go;
a) the creators of all (good) music
b) the need for women to pretend to like music
maybe it would take a generation or two, there would be small pockets of radical hippies still holding onto music out of a bizarre nostalgia, but after a good 100 years music will be a forgotten relic of the dark age of men
hahaha fucking hilarious. Clever joke dude.
great thread, would read again.
Such a statement is seriously patronising, and in truth rather misogynistic. I defy anyone to tell me I don't like music much because I'm a girl... but then I'm only pretending as I only pretend to like music so I can kiss boys.
i wish with all my heart they weren't true :(
Its just not true!! Surely its just because some lads persuade themselves that this is a fact so even when its not true they don't accept it... So many times I've been 'tested' on my musical knowledge - but if I know more than a lad about music (it happens believe it or not) I never think - oh yeah I know more because he's just a lad pretending - i just see it as different individuals have different experiences/exposure to different music... I don't think gender!
you've got every right to think they're just pretending
for they are being an utter bellend
Defend this assertion.
the same reason guys say they're really into girls but they're not that much.
internet access to pornhub and a flatshare with 3 mates and an N64 / Goldeneye combo surely?
like the clitoris.
i got this!
but it's rare you find one who is actively searching new music. I think their probably are more males who are passionate about music than women, but there are some girls who are into music. just not enough :(
argh this is irritating
Is fucking Death Cab and Bright Eyes. Cunts.
In Cath Kidson shops
has equal music knowledge/appreciation/obsession as myself.
and more than any other guy I've met, besides myself.
but no, I get the "hilarious misogyny" thread idea. thought you'd stir some things up today? get a few net-laughs?
But for people who took him seriously, ahem.
Karin Dreijer Andersson
I could go on.
not that i want to take this too seriously so...
girls don't like music that much because their periods.
it's because OF their periods, or because THEY ARE periods? I prefer the second one.
it originally read "their periods render them incapable of responding emotionally to music" but i sub-edited it and forgot to add the "of".
i prefer the second one too.
Girls do like music just the same as guys; it's just that they tend to appreciate tunes more.
I'm not getting into this, it's doomed to silliness.
this is the most awesome thread ever.
don't try and turn this around... sexist bitch
kitten's got claws!
how bout you and me grab merriweather post pavillion and pretend to like it somewhere??? ;) ;) ;) ;)
NOBODY really likes music?
yeah, in all honesty I can't even read, I just pretend so boys will think I'm cool. All the books and cds and records etc in my flat are just made of a ply wood veneer I bought off some website specially designed for girls.
Its how we roll... ;')
at birth, that turns the sound of all good music into James Blunt, so that they can enjoy it and impress cute indie boys at the same time. Amazing!
i like to shout.
For the love of Christ, what did she think you were, a Hotpoint 1200 Series?
a whole load of cakes could have been baked in the time that this thread has been running.
The ladies could have found stuff to occupy their time too.
...when it isn't degenerating into petty small minded silliness. There is some truth to the view that there appear to be less women as 'in' to music as men. That experience/ impression doesn't appear to be an isolated one. Thus it raises an intriguing question to ponder. I'd like to thank people who made some interesting comments here as it's been enlightening for me (especially those who referred to the theory that men have autistic tendencies). This does not have to be a thread dedicated to silly (playful?) sexist tit for tat.
but I've never met a woman who can play pool. Ever.
this whole new man routine, it's not actually getting you any flange, is it?
Yeah, I tried it for a while too, but it's not what 'they' want. Women like barely evolved brutes with previous convictions for assault and subscriptions to trucking magazines.
...come and get it, laydees.
And didn't bother because it would just be seen as sexist. Didn't know it had been done. Whoever said men just have more of a genetic disposition towards geeky fandom gets my vote.
Whoever was first to say that women couldn't listen to too much music because their ovaries would explode gets an honorary 'this'
And of course I meant *couldn't care less.
What happened to threads like this anyway?
I thought that was just Banmans blog.
They'll have to fight it out for blogger's rights.
You're right about the thread though, I'm off to start 'ITT Bands who've had 2 or more albums'. Get some really stimulating debate going. ;)
I can't wait to post my response of Boards Of Canada.
Been trying to think of a good one for ages, staring blankly at my DFA 1979 tickets.
Even if it pleads.
'Why are nowhere near as many women passionate about 'alternative' music?'
It's something I've questioned at every gig I have attended where the men outnumber the women by 10 to 1. Which is most of them. There are loads of women that are incredibly passionate about all kinds of alternative music, but nowhere near as many as there are men. If the question was 'Why don't as many men enjoy dancing as women?' I doubt it would cause such controversy.
Shoot me down, please. I fucking hate trolling, but despite being a hippie-esque liberal 20-something I really think this holds true because men, by a large, have more obsessively geeky tendencies.
is it really so surprising that women aren't interested in being part of a subculture where their looks are more important than what they have to say, they're treated like a novelty, their ideas and opinions are routinely dismissed and they have to endure constant sexual harassment?
also it's a total falsity that men have more obsessive geeky tendencies or that they're GENETICALLY pre-disposed to it.
i find it funny when men say this - obviously they have never really talked to a woman or listened to what a woman has to say about her obsession of choice.
and don't forget that women in general are raised to be modest and not so open when they talk as it's seen as rude or brash. as a man, you should feel lucky that you can freely express whatever you want without any sort of subconscious judgement.
was gonna say, wishpig is one lucky lady. ideserve2 posts a lot of good stuff too, right. it's not normally you. otherwise gotta change my favourite users list </kissing your arses>
Believe me, I never posted a topic on this because I couldn't really make a cohesive argument as to 'why'. And yes, I have noticed that all people have obsessions, hobbies, are wildly passionate about things. I've also had female friends & girlfriends tell me they suspect the genetic male geeky thing, and many others that dispute it. But, the more I think about it, the more I'm willing to accept it's complete crap.
So... maybe it's a form of social conditioning and social environments that stops women engaging with the 'alt music scene'. Yet, I'd actually assume your average gig was a more friendly & supportive environment than mainstream clubs where the population is closer to 50/50 male/female (I see much less inappropriate groping, general sleeziness at gigs)
It's all a bit over the top, surely?
anyway, i'd qualify wishpig's points by saying this isn't something that's exclusive to music scenes - it's persasive at different levels in all male-dominated communities in any section of society, not because the men all form some kind of evil conspiracy to make women feel as uncomfortable as possible and drive them out, but because we live in a gendered society, and the majority of men - even the lefty geeky 'alt' ones - don't make any real effort to question the received gendered norms/behaviour/attitudes that society is structured around. so those norms/behaviour/attitudes obviously and inevitably are carried into the vast majority of subculture communities, unless those communities make some conscious effort to make gender an issue for themselves. the alternative music scenes in existence today, at least from my experience and second-hand knowledge of them, are generally very resistant to doing this.
you can't honestly deny that this site is regularly very misogynist. you can argue that it's no more misogynist than your average night at the pub, or whatever, but the crux of the point is that whenever someone dares to bring up the issue of misogyny, it's met with rage and hilarity, accusations of hysteria or being 'over the top' or worst of all being a wishpig, a healthy dose of trolling, but very little real engagement. and that reaction isn't very progressive or welcoming. (i suppose you could also argue that this is more of an 'internet forum' issue than a 'music scene' issue, but that's a whole other discussion...)
on the other hand, however, i wouldn't say that sexism in alt music scenes is the only or even necessarily the main reason why those scenes are male-dominated. that fact is just another obvious product of gendered society where boys and girls are subtly conditioned towards different kinds of interests and ways of socialising. and i'm not saying this is simply imposed upon us: it's something we participate in, it's something we develop into our own gendered identity to the extent that we start to believe it's 'real' and 'natural'. i don't think it's very controvesial to say there are probably fewer women who have music as a main hobby than there are men, but the fact that people are still genuinely attributing this to 'genetics' or inherent sex differences is a depressing sign that we're still far from being as equal and progressive as we'd like to think we are
While the ratio at gigs for example is very often unbalanced, as we're saying, I do still see plenty there that don't seem to have any particular discomfort and I just can't understand the idea that they've supposedly had to overcome some kind of big man-made obstacle to go there, but way beyond that, I really don't understand what atmosphere there is that 'discourages women from even getting into a band', considering this pretty much consists of sitting on your own and listening to some music. I was going to say that, well, I can't help but think it might be a bit self-defeating let such percieved obstacles stand in the way of your enjoyment of music, and it sounds a bit like these women constructing their own barriers to their own enjoyment by some strange idea that men won't accept them when most happily and eagerly will - it almost sounds like believing they should aspire - but then without knowing what it's like to be a woman I suppose I probably haven't really grasped the weight of it all.
I know I'm probably pretty ignorant on this whole issue, but I just find this a difficult concept to understand, and while my replies here have maybe been a bit dickish, I often don't really think that what I perceive as the slightly confrontational nature of a lot of Wishpig's posts in this arena of discussion generally are very helpful to developing the discussion. I think this approach discourages a lot of men from engaging with the issue of feminism and asking questions which is a real shame, and clearly detrimental to the intended cause. Granted having looked back her first post in this thread was pretty reasonably, it was posted under a different name that I didn't realise was her.
I've not agreed with the 'genetics' part of this argument, I don't really have the required knowledge of genetics to even pass judgement on this one way or the other, and I'm really quite interested in all sides of the discussion here. You've explained it in a much more reasoned way, which I appreciate, but I'm still finding it a bit difficult to understand in terms of music, to be honest. I mean, I completely understand the idea that females playing music are, unfortunately, treated a lot differently to males, but, I don't know, I've never really known any women who are into music to be treated any differently (other than perhaps in terms of "there really aren't enough girls like you", which ties in with the thread's opening question, but I can understand might sound a bit patronising from a female perspective). I can understand the social board being called misogynistic perhaps, but I'd have to say I've rarely picked up on anything like that on the music board. I suppose it's more than likely that I'm just a bit dense and idealistic and don't pick up on such things, in which case, well, I apologise.
This is far too long for such an uninformed post, sorry.
the onus shouldn't be on women to answer questions. it's not difficult to find extensive writing on this issue from a variety of different perspectives. why should women be expected to take the time to do your research for you?
Not ALL THE TIME. Bloody hell.
is often one women have had a thousand times over, with the same responses. it'd be exasperating even if it wasn't on an extremely personal, emotional and potentially traumatic subject.
here's the thing, right: your point about the 'confrontational nature' of wishpig's posts is an extremely common and pretty patronising response to any kind of feminist argument that goes anywhere beyond 'well yeah women and men should obvs be equal'. people are 'confrontational' in every other area of political discourse, but gender is the ONLY issue where being 'confrontational' is seen to somehow invalidate the argument (which, if you care to think about it a wee bit, is kinda obviously intrinsically linked with the notion of women being kept in their place, even if that's not how you consciously intended it). it might not be particularly 'helpful', but the trend of you (and many others) responding by being 'a bit dickish' is even less 'helpful' to developing any kind of reasonable argument. it's not exactly like there are loads of men going 'hey wishpig, can you tell us more about feminism and women's oppression in an accessible and reasonable manner?' and she's going 'NAH FUCK YOU ALL MEN HATE WOMEN THE END'. the point is that for many men the 'unreasonableness' is a foregone conclusion, the issue is just something to make hilarious jokes about and not to be engaged with because it fundamentally contradicts their common-sense ideas and unquestionable observations about how gender REALLY works. there's nothing wrong with contesting certain points and asking questions about the parts that don't make sense to you, like you did in this post. there *is* something wrong with just barging in to say the whole argument is 'over the top', which has unpleasant undertones of women being unreasonable or exaggerating or just not being able to see how things REALLY are.
incidentally, like you, i don't entirely agree with wishpig's analysis of the question, and happen to think that the issue of 'women liking music' has far more to do with the construction of interests and acceptable social interaction in gendered discourse than it does with sexism in music scenes. the sexism issue is much more pronounced in other internet subcultures like gaming than in music, but the point is that it IS an issue in all areas of society, and to dismiss an attempt to bring it up as 'over the top' is rly just perpetuating the problem
but maybe that's just me.
my point still stands for the vast majority of people who engage in political argument. confrontation might 'irritate' lots of people, but in other areas of discourse it's rarely used as an excuse to simply refuse to engage with the argument at all.
I think a big part of the reason is that when it's phrased more confrontationally a lot of men see it as just sexism coming in the opposite direction. Which is greatly missing the point I know, but on first reaction it can be quite easy to find yourself thinking this way, to be honest.
'some strange idea that men won't accept them when most happily and eagerly will'
'there really aren't enough girls like you'
are surely excellent examples of the point about women being treated as a 'novelty', and the (extremely widespread) idea that a girl being 'into music' is exciting because either it makes her more attractive (and that therefore lots of girls really just have interests to impress boys), or on the flip side that it makes her more likely to sleep with you. these are things that men wouldn't even begin to consider in relation to their own interests/hobbies, which are seen as an autonomous, self-developed part of personality and social life and have absolutely nothing to do with sexual attractiveness
I didn't mean "Hey, you're a girl and you like music, come join us!", I meant it in same way yuo'd happily and eagerly welcome anyone of either gender into your little music world.
The other part I acknowledged as being something that's a bit more patronising, though I think I understated this by talking about how it relates back to the OP. I don't think I've ever actually said that sentence in my life, just for the record.
but my general point was that it's not just an issue of women not being 'accepted', it's an issue of HOW they're 'accepted' - because, as this thread obvs demonstrates/satirises (and for something to be turned into satire it has to realistically exist in the first place), women often aren't 'accepted' and interacted with on an equal level as music fans, hobbyists, collectors, or whatever, but as 'alt chicks', some kind of fashion statement or indie-boy object of desire. i'm not saying YOU PERSONALLY think like this or that ALL MEN think like this, but it objectively happens and it isn't exactly a rare phenomenon
I know grouchland is always on the lookout for 'altbabes'.
Take two forms of music that started at a similar time - indie rock & hip-hop. Hip-hop has been very successful with female crowds and hip-hop & R&B clubs and gigs are full of women... except 'underground' hip-hop, where you'll find the female presence diminishing.
So, I've assumed before that it is not that gig environments are unwelcoming, but that smaller number of women knew about the acts in the first place. Take for example when I went to see the xx before they hit the big time, the crowd was almost entirely male. When I went to see them after they'd hit on Radio 1, the crowd was almost 50/50 split. There wasn't a lack of appreciation for the music, but a lack of knowledge for it's existence.
It's real life examples like this that all alternative music lovers have experienced that have led many befuddled men throughout this thread to conclude that 'men are just geekier/more obsessive about things like this', a conclusion that (at least with regards to genetics) is probably entirely wrong. However, what we certainly do have here is an observable phenomenon which *does* deserve to be explored and discussed & in this discussion we can help expel gender myths & progress on the issue. I don't have the answer to the question, or I wouldn't have re-asked it, but I don't fancy being shot down as a misogynist for saying that I'd happily welcome more of a female presence in the alternative music community.
of what i've been saying - firstly, girls and boys being conditioned differently with regards to 'geeky' interests, and secondly, the male-dominated atmosphere of internet music communities, which is presumably where most people now develop their knowledge of 'underground' artists. i'd argue that the difference between 'mainstream' and 'underground' music fanbases is largely focused around a certain level of involvement and investment in communities and networks of artists/fans - this kind of investment isn't really demanded by 'mainstream' music, so there isn't the same kind of cultural/social sphere of 'fandom' to grapple with if you only go to 'mainstream' gigs. i never actually said anything about the gig environment - personally i've never felt particularly uncomfortable as a woman at a gig, but i really only go to tame 'indie' gigs, and from what i've heard stuff like (for example) the punk scene can be much more intimidating for women.
it's not as if you know the personal reasons of attendance for these women. your observations aren't really based on anything tangible and from experience, men miss a lot of awfully obvious things when it comes to gender issues.
nothing is ever black and white and you're not going to get a definitive answer: so rather than just sit and wait for a response on this website it'd be a lot more constructive to go and find about this kind of thing on your own initiative.
"is it really so surprising that women aren't interested in being part of a subculture where their looks are more important than what they have to say, they're treated like a novelty, their ideas and opinions are routinely dismissed and they have to endure constant sexual harassment?"
So much this. The worst term i've heard is 'scene queen' for girls who go to shows and hang out with people in bands etc. I'm talking about the punk scene generally, which is supposed to be above sexism etc but i'm always amazed how many men are dicks about women involved in music and assume they are interested due to wanting to fuck the singer in a band or something.
As for the actual question, i don't happen to know as many females i share music taste with but i think its fucking bullshit to say that that is part of a wider pattern. These kind of statements are total shit.
because the men who go on music forums make threads like this
that I don't recall seeing 'threads like this' pop up very often at all on this or other boards - but it's very easy to just say "threads like this" isn't it? But then I couldn't really be bothered to make such a boring post.)
but I think 'women in general are raised to be modest and not so open when they talk as it's seen as rude or brash. as a man, you should feel lucky that you can freely express whatever you want without any sort of subconscious judgement.'
while the first bit might be true (I dont know having never been raised a women) but the 2nd bit couldnt be more wrong, yes men can say things that women would be judged more harshly for saying but it works both ways, men are subject to gender expectations too, there are allsorts of expectations about 'being a man' basically any expression of emotions or feelings is frowned upon, im not trying to undermine that women have it alot worse in our society because they do but the idea that only women are negatively affected by gender expectations i'd disagree with
but the point was in specific reference to talking about 'geeky' interests like music, so i don't think she necessarily meant that men can 'express whatever you want' in ALL areas of life, just in this particular context
It's okay though, it's not proper sexism. By the way guys, aren't white people cunts?
slowly, but surely. a lot of the bands that i see around boston have at least one female member, if not two. while i am sure that some people see these girls as the "token female member" or just a novelty, the local music press seems to ignore this concept entirely and treat the girls in bands just as they'd treat the guys in bands.
i'm lucky that i spent many of my teenage summers here: http://sgrrc.com/
all in all, i know that i'm not the norm. i obsessively collect vinyl and play 3 instruments. however, i've met plenty of other like-minded females.
he used the correct their.
I think it's quite an interesting question (obviously worded slightly provocately in the OP but surely it's been reiterated in better terms plenty of times here since) and I really don't think you can just dismiss it with "Yeah, you know why? BECAUSE OF MEN, THAT'S WHY." It's really not the answer to every fucking thing, is it?
let me break down the response to this thread for you. a few people - mostly women with experience of being women who like music - have suggested it might be 'because of men', or because of other pervasive gender issues. the majority of the rest have either trolled a bit, or said something like 'because of genetics'. so let me rephrase your objection:
I think it's quite an interesting question (obviously worded slightly provocately in the OP but surely it's been reiterated in better terms plenty of times here since) and I really don't think you can just dismiss it with "Yeah, you know why? BECAUSE OF GENETICS, THAT'S WHY." It's really not the answer to every fucking thing, is it?
Quite a pleasant read though
there was a young lass, 15/16 ish....sort of twee in an enid blyton type way...walking around looking at albums and writing down in her notebook the ones that she wanted to remember and buy in the future.
this made me love her in an older brother type way and want to be mates with her and go on adventures. cheers.
is that she's always accusing me of being a misogynist
for as long as i can remember...Does all the faking qualify me for some sort of Oscar?
an interesting point, since I remember awhile back a french band called Fordamage were touring the UK and asked the promoter to put on a ladies night where girls could get in for free simply because they noticed that the amount of girls at gigs they were playing was significantly less than gigs they played in their native country.
In hindsight it did make me wonder if there is someting to be said about the gender divide when it comes to slightly more niche music and the possible cultural/social reasons for that.
I can't believe this is still going. What does one have to do to qualify as a person who 'really' likes music anyway?