Your are viewing a read-only archive of the old DiS boards. Please hit the Community button above to engage with the DiS !
it does not follow that Henry Rollins and Ian Mackaye are moral barometers.
and maybe Picciotto- but he'll probably nag me to death before I can make my move
you should check out the albums they make after they discovered pot, "End Hits" and "Red Medicine" they are awesome.
apart from the fact he's rubbish too.
Mike Watt and D Boone should be the moral barometer of the youth.
Where's it been suggested otherwise?
This will probably just lead to arguing over whether those bands are good though.
and people kept mentioning ian mackaye and I was all in my head like "why do that? better stay out of this one". People seem to have made "the bars" of black flag some sort of symbol of alleigance to a movement which was outdated decades ago. I'm not into it.
In fact, it was mentioned that he would beat people up at shows.
In fact, nobody even suggested being Straight edge was moral.
I think you got carried away.
Now that is not morally right!
But "mackaye" has come up on here very often as if you just shouldn't mess with him. Anyway, I'm not arguing. I think i'll have a go as an observer this time and see if I get called fewer names, hence why I said "discuss".
And, considering nobody has previously mentioned Mackaye as a 'moral barometer', I would hope and imagine that there's little to discuss. Great.
doesn't it seem that way? it seems that way to me.
People need heroes. If Mckaye and Rollins are going to get people into music and playing music and writing about it and buying it and talking about it, and being positive (which is what hardcore was originally all about), then let them have those heroes.
There's a difference. But I think the "moral barometer" thing is pretty irrelevant here anyway.
I think yes_ is implying we should listen to bands in a vacuum and not think about who is making the music.
just that "the bars" specifically and all that goes with it seem to have become short hand for membership to a private club where mackaye's a sacred cow and you must have an argument about being sXeFoLyF to enter.
you be all inventin shit in your mind!
black flag/fugazi etc are all part of the same stable
and I suppose they both have 'legendary' status bestowed on them by whoever that was, but otherwise they share no band members, don't sound the same and weren't active at the same time or in the same place.
This was all in the intro to the Ian Mackaye self-help seminar I went to btw
but I don't think using musician types as moral barometers is a good idea. I don't think people do though. And those bands don't exactly have preachy lyrics.
but he was an angry fightin' youth. I don't think people should've taken the rantings of an angry youth as gospel.
i suppose lyrically fugazi was very different but they always made it known where their political leanings where.
instrument film there isn't even that much of that. You can quite easily put meaning to the lyrics and stuff but past that all you got was 'don't beat each other up', 'don't be sexist', 'anyone who eats an ice cream cone is a motherfucker' etc. Which is fine, but any right thinking person knows that stuff already.
as in Rollins and Fugazi make their moral positions about certain things pretty clear.
But they themselves are not putting themselves out there as moral barometers.
So that's why it does not follow that Rollins and Mackaye are indeed Moral Barometers.
It's all the bumph that's written about them that seems to give rise to the opinion that they should be looked on as such.
Oh, and you are SO wrong about Henry Rollins.
listening to henry rollins talk is the best way to fill three hours.
I thought they both seemed a bit unpleasant.
but johnson pwned him
they're seemingly nice right on chaps
MacKaye often seemed like a bore and Rollins a bully who elevated himself to political correspondent and Voice of the People.
He is also, like every single great talent, a complete asshole.
He has a reason to be an arse. His anger, arrogance and hate always seemed to be more quietly frothing away and unleashed on the music. He started up SST by himself and all that.
MacKaye and Ginn are equated. If we're talking wiry pogoing punks, I'd take Ian Svenious over Picciotto any day.
Just like Picciotto has all the intensity of Rollins without seeming like a bully. Basically Picciotto and Ginn should form a band - it would be the best ever.
Svenonious is okay, but he comes across as a bit like TheDailyBumbler of hardcore and he got pwned by MES for being rude.
the stuff he talks about are all really interesting but he has the most monotone voice of all time.
(ginn this is)
anyway, i like all of them
I rest my case
he was the fourth singer, and many people prefer the stuff before he sung for Black Flag.
I dont know of any people who use them as moral barometers really.
I like Henry Rollins and Ian Mackaye because they are both really cool blokes, they have made some great music, they tend to have good views on stuff, and they genuinely are good people. theyve acheived good things in their life and why is it wrong to look up to that? i think yeah you shouldnt just follow what they do for the sake of it, but looking up to them doesnt harm anyone.
Oh and in relation to the 'bars' i got them tattooed because i think it looks good and i really like Black Flag. Im not saying 'these is my moral views on stuff'
I'm not saying I want to live my life like Hank or that it's a morality thing, or often anything beyond stating the obvious in an entertaining way, but I'd rather have someone with the attitude of the quote below than the "living for the weekend" nihilism of lad rock or so much 'dance' music.
"If you hate your parents, the man or the establishment, don't show them up by getting wasted and wrapping your car around a tree. If you really want to rebel against your parents: outlearn them, outlive them, and know more than they do."