Jeff Buckley's version of 'Hallelujah' is at number 3 in the midweek chart
"Jeff Makes Number 3 In The Midweeks!!!
To members of Make Jeff Buckley's Version Of 'Hallelujah' The UK Xmas Number 1
Charlotte Curtis
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16 December at 13:45
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In amazing news Jeff's version of 'Hallelujah' is already at number 3 inthe midweek chart which goes to show just how well people power can work.So does that mean we can ease up? Not for a second. Everyone has to keep ondownloading, inviting your friends to the group, getting them to downloadit and to keep spreading the word! We CAN beat X Factor if we try!!! Here are some links you can choose from that will count towards the charts.
http://www.play.com/Music/MP3-Download-Track/4-/6754724/Hallelujah/Product.html?aid=6754310
http://hmv.com/hmvweb/digitalProductDetails.do?ctx=70000500;8;-1;-1;-1&productId=6361670 http://www.7digital.com/artists/jeff-buckley/hallelujah-1/
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maybe now
people might like him a bit less
DOOO ITTTTTT
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=192797464&s=143441
why?
hahahahahahaaha
AWESOME SCENES
I feel sorry for Leonard Cohen in this whole debacle.
His version is nowhere near as good.
It's well 80s.
In a bad way.
John Cale's version is possibly the best, but it's not on iTunes.
why?
hes making a shitload off it
what happened to the welsh version?
imagine having the songwriting credit to three songs in the top five. Albeit all the same song.
Don't
he needs the money
All this means is yet more series of the X Factor/ ITV officially deciding to can it
and do nothing but reality 'talent' shows.
no it doesn't
itv does the show because of advertising and phone revenue, simon cowell does it because of the publicity for the winning acts and cos he gets paid loads. I don't see how buying an alternative version of the winning song is going to affect that.
Because its going to prove that it has 'hype' and 'brand' value.
i don't get why people like this song
and jeff buckley's version ain't great? i dunno.
the best version
is RUFUS's i think.
^ I thought so too ^
Rufus Wainright is awful in every way, except his gayness, which I have nothing against.
OMG SHUT UP!
It was good at Glastonbury!
I was drunk. Leave me alone.
I agree! Definitely the best!
Leonard's is bland, Jeff's is whingey, Rufus...beautiful.
I prefer the x factor version
its gotta be leonard cohens version FTW
will someone put up a link to the john cale version please
That would be a bit like voting Liberal Democrat.
Zzzzzzzzzzzz
I might go buy the X Factor one just to piss all those Jeff Buckley fans off. Now THAT is worth 79p...
"We CAN beat X Factor if we try!!!"
Not with 150,000 sales in two days you can't.
Cohen's version at 34, mind
I bought that one too.
I just don't get why everyone cares about all this
I think Jeff Buckley's version is truly horrible for what it's worth, which isn't much
troof
Everyone should record a version of Hallelujah and release it on Monday
Let's have a whole chart made up of Hallelujah covers.
I'd buy Slayer's version if one were to exist.
oh please
in a fortnights time, tat will rule the charts again, and all the people who bought Jeff Buckley's version in "protest against the commercialisation of music" will go back to hardly ever buying singles again. Anyone who says they are buying this solely for the reason that 'they prefer Jeff's version' are completely bullshitting. This is music snobbery and elitism at its worst - the worst part is that it's done by apparent 'music fans' who 'love music'. Fuck off.
Nah, this is awesome.
This would be a total victory over bullshit pop music. The worst snobbery in this thread is in your post pal.
I'd have preffered all this
if it had said; look, this whole thing is crap, but this week go and buy something you want on a small indie label. we know the charts are nonsense but doing this will make a massive difference at a time a lot of labels who aren't in it for the money are really struggling, while stuff like x factor makes many think everything is rosy with reports of record sales.
then again, i guess it's less of 'a story' and a lot less people would do it. :(
The whole thing's utterly utterly snobbish.
I mean people started slating it before they'd actually heard the new version. There is absoltuely no way that can't be snobbish.
Also "This would be a total victory over bullshit pop music"
a) No it wouldn't 'cos Buckley's still getting massively outsold so there will be no victory.
b) No it won't because, as the article says below, it's still making the X Factor the most important thing around over Christmas. People buying a different version of a song Simon Cowell's told 'em to buy just reinforces the X Factor's cultural supremacy. The only way there can be a "victory" over the X Factor in the Xmas number one race is if something beats it for reasons entirely related to the X Factor and simply 'cos it's the more popular song.
c) The worst snobbery in the thread was in the words "this would be a total victory over bullshit pop music".
a) getting it into the top ten is a massive win.
b) This would have been the case no matter what happened. The logic in that is execrable. A bit like saying "don't vote, it just encourages them".
c) That is not snobbery, and I'm getting really fucked off with people flinging mud at me with absolutely no backup. So fuck you, basically.
...
a) how?
b) No it isn't. It's like saying "It's better to vote for who you like best rather than voting against who you like least".
c) I guess it depends whether you meant 'all popular music is bullshit' or 'this particular popular music is bullshit'. Apologies if it was the latter and I misinterpreted it.
There is nothing worth replying to in that post.
But it's worth noting the fact.
I'll also take this as a lack of argument on your part.
Thanks.
Talking until the other person can no longer be bothered to reply
Is not the same as winning an argument.
Although I can see it makes you feel happy/smug. So, mazzeltov!
Which begs the question of why you're still replying (and why I am too I guess)
I didn't say I'd won the argument. I've never even really been entirely sure "winning" an argument exists unless you persuade the other person to adopt your point of view (which I think we can accept isn't going to happen here)
And I can't say I feel happy or smug at all. Just frustrated at having an ongoing internet discussion with someone who seems utterly blinkered in their views.
bollocks.
This is a campaign aimed to divide music into "proper music" and "bullshit pop music". This is basically saying that one person is allowed to cover a song, but another isn't because her 'fame' has originated from a popular TV contest. Noone would deny that she has an amazing voice and has lots of potential as an artist. Statements like yours just reinforce the dated ideal that "pop music is shit and indie music is much better". "Holier than thou" statements like yours is music snobbery.
*applauds*
I've said before that Eoghan or JLS winning and releasing the single would have been pretty damn appalling. But people are actually protesting against a reasonable version of an excellent song being at Christmas Number One and thus finally bringing fuckloads of money to a 78 year old man who, despite being one of the finest songwriters of the twentieth century, was up 'til recently still struggling for money due to being swindled out of his earnings. You do have to wonder hwhy they're doing that.
bollocks.
I generally hate commercial pop music and I DO think that other kinds of music have a lot more to offer. That is not snobbery. It's fucking... sensibility. Quality control. Your inverse snobbery and mud flinging is doing my fucking head in.
Bollocks.
Your mud flinging and inverse snobbery is very flimsy and annoying.
I think most commercial pop music is very poor. That is not snobbery. That's about music sensibility and personal taste. So quit trying to tack your weak accusatory bullshit onto me please.
The Jeff Buckley song is a beautiful version of an all-time classic. The new recording is a horrible, cynical, seasonal cash-in. For the Jeff Buckley version to be bought by so many people who are uncomfortable and slightly disgusted by the way the song has been used is a powerful statement, and a positive reaction.
Sure, it shows that people pay attention to what Cowell and his ilk do, but we all knew that anyway. This is a counter reaction instead of just having a whinge about the horrible state of pop music. I am totally into it. It's great!
Buckley in the charts because people hate the shit cover version = massive win. And the naysayers can do one.
I think you're missing the point
I don't think this has anything to do with whether you prefer Jeff's or Alexandra's version. I don't think this has anything to do with what your opinion of the quality of current commercial pop music. In this current debate that is irrelevant, and I'll explain why.
Week in, week out, the music chart is saturated with commercial pop music - music that, for want of a better term, has been 'manufactured' to sell records and make money. That is the current state of affairs - it always has been and frankly, it probably always will be.
But the fact still remains is that this is music. There are songwriters, composers, arrangers, music producers, sound engineers, session musicians all contributing towards the final product, which is then promoted by the artist. Noone can deny that these artists are not real musicians, simply because they don't write their own songs (cf Frank Sinatra) play their own instruments (cf a lot of hip hop artists) or have the backing of major labels (cf pretty much every popular band in existance at the moment). And noone can deny that what comes out of the speakers on your radio or TV is music.
However, this campaign aims to nullify this. So you don't like Alexandra's song? Who cares? There are thousands and thousands of people that do. Would you tell them that what they listen to isn't 'real' music? Where do you draw the line? Would you extend a campaign like this to prevent any music that is performed by artists on major labels? Or bands that have lots of money backing them? Or bands that work really hard and want a 'big break' on shows such as X-Factor / T4 Unsigned Act etc.? Or artists that perform songs that their didn't write? Or would it be better than you shove down their throats what you consider to be "real music"?
And in any case, the charts are a measure of how commercially successful a song as been. Read that again - how COMMERCIALLY SUCCESSFUL a song has been. That's not a reflection of how 'good' a song is (which is of course, personal preference), but how many copies it has sold. You're basically playing Cowell at their own game. And losing - last time I checked Alexandra's song is still number one.
Yes, so you don't like Alexandra's version and you do like Jeff's version. Great, that's your choice, and to be honest, that's the only thing I agree with you on. But promoting this campaign is as detrimental to music as a whole as it is completely pointless. It aims to divide music and artists (and their supporting producers/songwriters/managers etc) into these wishy-washy categories of 'bullshit pop music' and 'real music'. There is nothing to be gained from categorising music like that. Absolutely nothing.
Personally speaking? As far as I'm concerned there is only two types of music - music I like, and music I don't. To me, it is irrelevent where the music has come from, who has produced it, or what position on the charts it is.
bra-fucking-vo!
I have nothing to add.
I DIDN'T SAY POP MUSICIANS ARE NOT REAL MUSICIANS, IDIOT.
Like I said, stop trying to tack your clichéd argument on me. If you want to rant about this, fine, but don't try and make me look like I'm something I am not. I very carefully avoided saying the words you have shoved into my mouth.
I said "other kinds of music have a lot more to offer". I have not said REAL MUSIC.
I REPEAT. I HAVE NOT SAID "REAL MUSIC" ONCE.
UNDERSTAND?
my point still stands
You wish to divide music into 'bullshit pop music' and 'everything else'.
Your point does not stand.
And you're so irritating and obtuse that I'm not going to talk about this with you any more.
waaah waaah waaah
waah
Man, I hate people who don't listen and just RA RA RA about whatever pre-cooked concern they need to get off their chest
waah waah
Uh oh.
The retard bus has arrived.
waaah waah?
He's having a go at the retards now!
Jesus, how up your own arse can you get?
What do you mean by "other" kinds of music?
Surely it comes down to how good the music is? It'd be silly to say "other kinds of music than pop have more to offer than pop" as it depends on
a) how good the pop is
and
b) how good the other music is.
I have found more of worth in countless other genres.
newsflash: music is subjective!
not all people like and appreciate the same things!
people are different in many ways!
that is ok!
not everybody has to like what you like!
your taste is not the final word!
other people can have valid opinions too!
just because you find more worth in particular things doesn't devalue the worth other people might find in other things!
you are not the god!
Newsflash: music of different quality exists!
Critical consensus can be acheived!
Some music is more about the money than the music!
Some music goes into history and is loved!
Some music is transient and pointless!
To deny criticism is to refute analysis and fall into a limp "everything is fine" mentality in which you can't tell shit from diamonds!
Your points are a weak pile of half baked platitudes that don't add up to a stance at all.
WEAK.
but still
you are not the god!
What are you ON about?
this campaign
is a protest not against Alexandra and her version but against the machine behind such things as X Factor. Alexandra will surely take offence if she's not number 1 and I would feel sorry for her given past history and the shoe-in that X Factor winner's seem to expect.
Also "bullshit pop music" was I am sure a reference to the sort of tripe that X Factor winner's normally have to sing.
The thing that p*sses me off about X Factor is that they always use sh*t, formulaic, predictable, derivative, banal songs as their winner's song, at least this year they've used something that is empirically good.
PS X Factor is a brain washing tool for children but its ok to watch it if you watch it responsibly; its very much like drinking booze - it's not clever and it doesn't make you cool but if used responsibly you can have a good time.
bollocks to this, I want the One Show to be christmas number one.
Jeff Buckley's at number 3?
sellout.
The last word?
http://www.popjustice.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3279&Itemid=206
That's probably the best thing I've read on the matter.
I love popjustice
And John: 'A victory over bullshit pop music'
You're off my Christmas card list...
It would be!
I don't see how that's not blindingly obvious.
"Fuck you Cowell, we like Buckley's version, and enough people
hate your shit to buy a song they already own to prove it."
I'm sure theres logic in there somewhere
It must be between the bit where you're ranting at someone who couldn't give a toss due to being in California in his mansion, and you spending your hard earned cash on something you already own...
My only real issue with all this
Is that its FUCKING 'Hallejuiah'
Its up there with 'Come together' and 'Light my fire' as MOST OVERRATED AND POINTLESSLY COVERED THING EVER
Player hater.
And obviously the bit where you're proving to Simon Cowell he's so important
he's not only guaranteed the Christmas number one slot (Buckley sure as fuck isn't going to get it) but also has a previous X Factor winner AND a version of the song he's released in the top-three AND another version of the song he's released in the top 40.
You're really really showing Cowell there...
Not to mention the fact this campaign gives Cowell a fuckload of extra publicity
and fuels media interest in the show to a point where every newspaper and music website is discussing Hallelujah.
You really think you're showing Simon Cowell by doing his advertising for him?
i agree
the irony is so delicious, i just couldn't take another bite.
Why not, if it's delicious?
ok, that didn't come out right
I was referencing a Dr Cox rant. EPIC FAIL.
One things for sure, this entire debate is a LOT funnier than that Peter Kay's "Britain's got the Pop Factor" parody. That was crap.
X factor is organised by Jeff Buckley's estate - everyone knows that.
this is my favourite bit:
"Did Leonard So-Called Cohen write 'Toxic'? No. (Subs please check)"
Indifference is the way to go ( both sides are producing arguments which are irritating me anyway)
Now I'm off to listen to Grace.
Though I would lobby to have terms like 'real music' and shouting 'snob!' in any musical argument banned.
On a completely different subject
Grace isn't really that good is it?
I mean the three covers are excellent, Mojo Pin's a damn good song and Lover You Should've Come Over's pretty good but, bar one or two others, Buckley wasn't really a very good songwriter was he??
No
It is very good. And yes maybe I wouldn't be saying that or love it as much if Jeff Buckley was still alive etc but it's the old 'if my aunt had balls she'd be uncle' argument (I think...)
^
It's an all-time classic.
I agree
but don't you just prefer listening to Mystery White Boy or Sin-e? To add to the "arguement" if you watch the Buckley live dvd you can see his frustration for being known for one song at the time. I don't reckon he would even playing it if he could now.
With the amount of times it's been covered what's one extra to the pot? If you don't like it - don't listen to it. It's pretty simple in my eyes.
I just got Sin-E today
But I don't much like the 'if you don't like it don't listen to it' argument in general. I don't listen to Razorlight for instance as I dislike their music, but they're still bloody irritating.
I have to come up with better examples..
"Don't like it don't listen to it"
Is a brainless argument that is countered very simply by pointing to the concept of critique.
Critique is one thing...
but this whole thing is about people believing thay their opinion is better than someone else's. You've got to accept that everyone is different and you will not change that. I may be critical of something when I first hear it and then after that is is my duty to myself to keep away from it. It's just like people who complain about TV shows.... pointless!
No it's isn't about that!
That's casting the argument into a ridiculously simplified and basically incorrect context.
NEWS FLASH
The singles chart isn't really that important anymore.
my point exactly
would anyone care under any other circumstances? No.
The christmas number one has always been massively symbolic.
of what?
Of how many records have been sold that week, durr brain
Of what the mainstream music audience decrees to be good
Like how Big Brother is like a massive referendum on what kind of personality traits and behaviours are considered sound or moral. Christmas number one is a referendum.
hahaha
'christmas number one is a referendum'. I have honestly never heard such bullshit. Except maybe that sentence about Big Brother being a referendum. Jesus man, just go back to telling us about your cat.
Jesus christ, this argument really has brought an absolute shower of cunts out of the woodwork.
waaah waaah waaah
waah
What about 'Mull Of Kintyre' getting Christmas Number 1
at the so-called "height of punk"?
My Blobby's Christmas Song...
...as a statement on the rising obesity epidemic?
Bob The Builder showed the oppulence of the building trade at the height of the new homes boom
You're being dumb.
Mr Blobby illustrated people's willingness to buy into novelty songs. It was totally interesting when that horrible piece of shit did so well.
I didn;t say anything about a referendum on fucking social issues. Just on pop music.
Punk was widely rejected at the time!
They even put a blank space in the charts where the Sex Pistols single was supposed to be.
That's a good example. Thanks!
You're not doing so well in this thread, dude.
Something about a dead horse.
Nah.
Sense won.
Look towards the bottom.
This thread was a DEFINITE INTERNET WIN despite thorny moments.
just keep telling yourself that
waaah waaaaah wah
I agree with much of what you've said, but this is an entirely pointless post
Also, if by pushing for a "victory over bullshit pop music" Mr Brainlove is referring to cover versions of universal (and expertly crafted to be so, which has been truly exploited in this case) classics by a reality winner who (I'm assuming) had shit all to do with choosing the song, did not personally interpret the song in their own style or add anything of their own personality or emotion to it, and has been covered and released at a certain time for the sole purpose of making as much money as possible, then I think that I agree with him. I do, however, feel that his argument would be better supported by a campaign for people to buy the original. I feel awfully sorry for Cohen, it seems he's not really in a position to turn down all this money since being robbed by his manager.
This was in reply to theguywithnousername
Not sure why it ended up down here.
Cohen's get out clause
I really don't get this "Poor Leonard Cohen, he's so poor, we have to give him lots of money" sentiment. He really isn't that poor anymore after charging everyone £90 to see him playing in various sheds.
Artists generally make very little profit from touring. It's common for them to lose money.
Although if he was charging £90 per ticket then this could be an exception. Still, a tour by someone like Cohen is unlikely to have generated many more CD sales which is where most of the money would've been made, which makes it a little more understandable
Nonsense
He played very large venues and charged a fortune for tickets. He would have made a very handsome profit. He didn't even have the overheads that a Madonna or Kylie has and they make a fortune out of playing these places.
If he was playing 2000 seaters for £30 a pop you might have a point.
You're probably right
Don't get me started on the whole Buckley is far worthier than Alex etc
However I find the "Buy it to give Cohen money" bullshit even worse!
Sure he lost millions but I bet he's far far far richer than anyone on this board and he's not exactly on skid row yet!
Yeah that was me, down at Camber Sands
Signing in to my chalet as
J Buckley
J Buckley
J Buckley
Unlikely
I should have just got a job on the bins
The pay’s better and I’d know some hard blokes
And I wouldn’t have to pretend
That I know what “rhetorical” means
I COULD HAVE BEEN LIKE LOOOOU BARLOW
Half-Man Half-Biscuit
need a Xmas Number 1 badly.
THIS ^^^^
THIS THIS THIS
AND THIS
a good PR story could get Lightning Bolt to number 1 in times likes this.
The victory lies with 'them', not with music.
"them"?
You think this whole thing is a cynical operation run by a shadowy clique of PR people operating on Jeff Buckley's behalf?
waaah waaah waaah
don't put words into my mouth, er, typing fingers.
Obviously JB is dirt in the ground so no, I don't think anyone's operating on his behalf. Nor do I think there's a load of cackling, coughing PR men in trenchcoats holding secret meetings in smoky backstreet whiskey bars conspiring to get it to number 1.
It's just a different, and very easy angle to use! "Hey guys, reject this manufactured pap! Here's a REAL version of the song!". Bob's the brother of, or husband to the sister of, one of your parents.
"Hey guys, reject this manufactured pap! Here's a BETTER version of the song!"
There we go.
What I'm saying is that the alternative to the X-Factor version could have been ANYTHING.
I reckon people are just keen to show their right-on-ness and be seen to be against the X-Factor thing. It's all vanity.
oh, and look!
http://www.nme.com/news/jeff-buckley/41704
That's been tabled since way before the X-Factor thing.
sigh
to be honest, i'm just cranky because i've only just gotten really out of bed.
i regretted making my first point straight away but i'm too stubborn to back down.
sorry for stroppy cynicism. merry christmas.
But they hadn't heard the version of the song when they started the release.
They therefore had no way of saying "here is a better version" as "better" can only be comparative.
Shut up.
Seriously.
I'll take that as an admission of an absence of argument on your part.
Thanks.
is this the part where brainlove 'wins'?
I'm looking for evidence of this 'definite internet win', but all I can see is his blinkered points all the way down the thread. Maybe if I keep looking!
Talking to you is like fighting an octopus made of bullshit.
Hence the 'shut up'. One step too far into pure bullshit = default "SHUT UUUUUP" trip switch.
I hate people who try to win arguments just by talking and talking and talking and disagreeing and disagreeing and squirming and whining.
That's you.
It's you as much as it is me I'm afraid John.
But ultimately this argument's becoming a pretty pointless one 'cos neither of us are gonna reach any kind of consensus on it and ultimately on Sunday the X Factor thing will be number one, the Jeff Buckley version (which I do really like) will be in the top three then by this time next year everyone will have forgotten who the woman is, let alone what song she released. And that'll be that.
For the record it does piss me off that the X Factor song is guaranteed a Christmas number one these days and it has pretty much killed the Xmas Number One race which used to be really interesting. And that does annoy me quite a lot.
I just think there are far more important things to do than running futile internet campaigns about it.
Fine.
Go do them.
Why does it have to be a protest against certain types of music?
Why does it have to be 'about' anything?
Why can't it just be a good old-fashioned chart battle where people buy whichever song they prefer?
It's clear that Alex is going to be number one but why shouldn't Jeff Buckley fans buy the song in an attempt to get Jeff's version recognition?
What I don't get is why no one in the music industry seems to be getting behind the Jeff version in order to encourage people to buy more music. Surely even if one company owns both versions, encouraging a chart battle is only going to mean more money for them? And for the retailers? And more publicity encouraging people to buy albums?
I understand this has probably all happened too quickly for Sony to produce CD singles and give Jeff's version a proper release, but why are MP3 sites only promoting the X Factor version? A conspiracy by the all-powerful Simon Cowell perhaps? Unlikely - even if he did have that kind of power, a chart contest is only going to help him by encouraging X Factor fans to buy more copies of his single.
I guess it just shows how slow, cumbersome and out of touch record companies are. No wonder they're all in such a state.
Because this was way unexpected and nobody's jumped on it.
I'm really impressed by the amount of people who've gone for it.
It's a good thing. If only because it illustrates a very strong attachment to other versions of the song.
I'm betting most people who bought the Buckley version already have it and did this simply to make the point that the song is special.
who cares though?
it'll all be over in a week or two, there's no chance whatsoever that X factor won't be number one, this is a totally pointless and futile gesture and it makes everyone involved look like a petty and stupid cunt.
waaaaah waahhh
:D
nice moves
I don't think its particularly about the song
I think its the fact that people are finally waking up too the fact they have absoultely no ownership of the music charts/industry. Prehaps this arguement will be enhanced when the cause epiclly fails and the new version beats the jeff buckly one by something like 10:1.
Personally I couldn't care less about the song but I would like a christmas song too reach christmas number 1. It will never happen as long as pop idol/x factor continue though.
Nah, most people don't give a toss about the charts and whether or not they 'own' them
It's just that Jeff Buckley's a cult figure with a dedicated following and some people want to see his song do well because they prefer it to the version that everyone else will hear on X Factor.
Brain_Love: It wasn't unexpected - the same thing happened earlier this year in the US. You're right, nobody's jumped on it, but WHY? In the age of the internet there's no excuse. Maybe record companies rely too much on telling us what we want rather than responding to the desires of the people.
If downloading is killing the industry in its current form, it's a welcome kick up the backside.
Re: Buckley/Franco - My God, you're right! Maybe he knew he would never get to number one so thought he'd try being a Hollywood movie star instead.
I endorse this post.
I don't like how dying makes you a 'cult figure'. I don't think it does either.
It's not as if Jeff Buckley was some sort of icon. He didn't do anything revolutionary or change the music scene in any major way. He basically released a good record then died.
Who said dying made him a cult figure?
Definition of Cult (dictionary.com):
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult
or
of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie
Jeff never sold that many records but those who do like him tend to show great devotion to him, hence he's a cult figure.
Jeff Buckley was one of those people who inspires devotion from his fans.
He always was. He's not exactly the same kind of solo artist as Tom Vek, you know? I think that's where the cult thing comes from.
fail.
monday's sales figures:
buckley - 18,600
burke - 149,546
It's not really fail though
if it makes No.3 or No.2, which is how it's currently looking. An X Factor winner's first single is always going to sell a lot more than your average No.1 anyway.
Of course the people behind this whole Buckley thing should have probably been more realistic in the first place, but then that's not my problem.
word
Top ten is good enough. :)
maybe it would matter if there was a major chart show on telly
like top of the pops, cd:uk or, er, the chart show.
the whole of the top 5 is just looking like an epic win for the x-factor, really.
ps. i really don't know why i care
Nah.
X-Factor was always a massive win. The Jeff Buckley thing is a "fuck you" to the X-Factor. People will be reading about it as a 'protest' against the new cover version all over the world, I'd imagine. These stories travel fast, it's already being reported nationally - as a Facebook "people power protest" against the new version.
is it REALLY a protest?
less than 20,000 sales doesn't seem like much of a protest to me considering the country's biggest-selling tabloid is behind the 'campaign'.
and buckley got to no. 1 on the billboard chart after that dreadlocked chap on 'american idol' performed it on the show (which was seemingly the first time cowell heard the song. uber lolz). that wasn't a protest now, was it? (subs, please check)
and if i get one more 'get jeff buckley to no. 1' group invite on facebook today i swear i will kick a puppy in the face.
It only got to No. 1 on Billboard's Hot Digital Songs list
As far as I'm aware that doesn't count as actually getting to No. 1.
People downloaded it because they liked the song and the Idol version wasn't available to buy so no it wasn't a protest.
I'm sure that some of the people who've downloaded it in this country see it as a protest. How many people does it have to be before it's an official protest?
I just bought it because I'm a fan and want to see it do well.
billboard hot songs
ok, but it still sold 178,000 copies.
which is quite a lot in my book.
i haven't bought it cos i bought 'grace' years ago.
I own Grace on CD and vinyl and I have the legacy edition
but I still bought the download three times.
Damn, I've revealed to be one of those pesky Jeff Buckley fans that everyone seems to hate so much.
so much for the credit crunch
The world may be in financial meltdown
but I can still afford 3 downloads at 69p each (or whatever).
And I bought the albums years ago.
well i shall take my £2 (or whatever) and spend it on a lovely booze in highbury wetherspoons
rather than spend it on something i already own.
but whatever floats yr boat.
you FILTHY CHART-RIGGER.
I don't own Jeff Buckley getting into the top three
but hopefully I soon will.
I am a filthy chart rigger it's true, but I've no doubt there are X Factor fans out there buying loads of copies of Alex's single as well.
ADIE IS A HEARTLESS BOOZEHOUND CYNIC
All over the world is right
Giving tons of publicity to the lovely Alex which will make Mr Cowell rubs his hands together with glee, the pound and dollar signs flashing in his eyes!
Keep on moaning about Buckley being better, there's not enough Facebook groups covering the thing,,,
has anyone realised that
jeff buckley and james franco are the same person. he faked his own death so he could play the green goblin im tellin ya
Don't be ridiculous
It is quite clearly John Brainlove who is Buckley in disguise. Just look at the initials.
Yeah I have stick-on cheekbones and collapsable charisima.
I find it pretty weird
that nobody is talking about any artistic values associated with all of this - except for berksy arguing that Burke was as much of an artist as Buckley as the same technical side was involved and it is all still 'music' at the end of that... so let's just release a Musak version or a vaguely tuneful piece of white noise that sounds similar to Hallelujah because after all - it is still involving some recording and coming out of a speaker, right?
At the end of the day, both versions have a very limited amount of artistic credit due to the fact that it is a cover song and it is an argument really of how much art is left in either version? Due to the nature of both artists and their relative 'fame' I would be inclined to argue that Buckley has the edge.
Yeah, if you don't write songs you're barely an artist at all.
As if performing took any skill or talent. They're all just karaoke singers.
I would actually quite like to hear a white noise version of hallelujah
but that's probably beside the point. I agree that as far as we can say anything has artistic value, Buckley's version definitely has more artistic value. And this value doesn't necessarily come from the song itself - it comes from the intentions behind it, the context of it's production etc. The X-factor song has been calculated as solely a product rather than art from the very beginning - Simon Cowell and that lot are only after money after all, and they calculated that most people would buy this. I highly doubt Simon Cowell has any actual love for music left in him, and if he does it's buried deep down somewhere.
So yeah, berksy is right - this isn't about liking Buckley's version more. It's a cultural rejection of the X-factor mentality. They have used a song solely to make money, thus removing it of any worth other than capital. And perhaps it's a stance against Simon Cowell and his approach to music in general. It might not "succeed" (whatever that means), but at least it shows that there are a lot of people out there who feel this way, even though it is still a minority.
I endorse this post.
Thanks for lending a bit of eloquence to the argument.
^^^This^^^
I reckon this post hits the nail on the head.
Now if everyone downloaded Halleluhwah by Can instead....
I bought my, er, copy. For what it's worth.
And every day there is a funfair at the edge of the lake.
If Jeff Buckley's version is at 2 or 3 by Christmas will they show it on the Top of the Pops Christmas Special?
I presume not. Is there a video for it? Or a decent live clip?
They should show it though. When so many people go to the trouble to buy it they deserve to have their efforts rewarded.
Isn't the John Cale version of Hallelujah on the soundtrack to one of the Shrek films?
Or did I have another spontaneous false memory?
yah
but Rufus' version appeared on the soundtrack album for some reason
or it could be Shrek 2
i forget
Cale's version was in the movie itself (Shrek 1)
But Rufus Wainwright's version was on the album due to licensing rights. I think Rufus is on the Dreamworks label and it was a Dreamworks film hence the switcheroo.
ah, i see
Ah,
but do you SEE?
i think its good.
two fingers up to the producers of x factor who take it for red that they can get christmas number one every single year with shitty songs/shitty covers/shitty singers. i dont really have anything against Alexandra as a person/popstar/singer but I think that the christmas number one spot does need to be reclaimed off of the pile of epic shit-wank that is the x factor.
this aimless ramble was bought to you by...me.
just to show them they dont have a monopoly...
y'know
Except it will still get to number one
Jeff Buckley's not anywhere close to beating X Factor.
Yes but
a) Jeff Buckley is being outsold by at least 5:1
b) Surely the better way of doing it would be through something that was not at all X-Factor related (whereas the Buckley version is there for entirely X-Factor-related reasons, thus reinforcing the monopoly)
Yeah, give it a try Paul.
Go on. Do a "buy something completely unrelated to everything that's going on right now because it's good because I say so" Facebook group and see how it catches on.
You have been a nonsensical nitpicking nincompoop throughout this entire thread my friend.
I mean could you miss the point any more than you have??
NO.
The point you're missing is I don't give a fuck what Simon Cowell does.
This undermines Simon Cowell's influence more than any group you can possibly conceive.
For the record I haven't missed the point at all. I've thought your point is utter bullshit (which it clearly is) but disagreeing with a point and missing it are very different things.
Yeah man fuck Cowell, who cares right?
Cowell ain't the boss of me.
I think your standpoint on this (minor) issue is... obtuse.
You can think what you like.
It's nice to see you acknowledging it is in fact a minor issue.
I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ELSE
cockend
Maybe I misinterpreted you
but "People will be reading about it as a 'protest' against the new cover version all over the world, I'd imagine. These stories travel fast, it's already being reported nationally - as a Facebook "people power protest" against the new version." implied you had a somehwhat grander vision of its significance than it simply being a minor issue.
So it's a news item. Wow! We already knew that.
I literally can't summon the enthusiasm to engage with you any further.
Soz.
I don't actually understand your post at all.
I mean the second part I do and feel the same way. But the first part I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say at all.
I'm not surprised.
You keep promising not to reply to me. Why do you then feel the need to reply to me?
Especially since you aren't going to explain what you mean and engage in debate but instead resort to incredibly boring snide comments and insults.
I don't want to continue this conversation. It's gone on for far too long and is going in circles. You disagree with me. I can deal with that. And I can deal with the fact you seem to have a problem with people disagreeing with you. That's your business and that's up to you if that's how you want to conduct an internet discussion.
But I'm getting rather bored of the constant snide remarks being pushed my way because I don't agree wtih your opinion. And I'm getting rather bored with the fact you keep saying you don't want to engage with me any further and then actually doing so anyway.
I think we've both said what we want to say on thus subject and, since you aren't going to elaborate on what you meant, we've reached something of an impasse. So perhaps we could just stop now? Thanks.
Okay!
is this the part where brainlove 'wins'?
who can tell?!?
epic shit-wank
yep.. those are the best words to describe x-factor. the people that buy the singles are the people that watch it (stating the obvious i know) - and this nation is full of people who like that sort of thing. So the battle is easily lost. I had the misfortune of having to watch some of it two weeks ago, and the thing that was most displeasing is that of the few people in the final most of them WERE OUT OF TUNE. COMPLETELY. And they call it 'musical talent'??!!!! They are pretending that these people can actually sing. How can this be watched? how can anyone tolerate watching it?
Just awful.
1 Jeff Buckley for every 5 X-Factor?
Considering the numbers involved and the TV exposure of X-Factor, that's a MASSIVE WIN.
Yeah, exactly
It's actually quite a sizeable minority when you think about it in context. I think most people's definition of "success" would be Buckley at number 1, but that was never a realistic goal from the start. Showing that there is a large chunk of the country who reject the X-factor mentality is enough to make a culturally significant point.
YES.
^5
It really fucking isn't.
Everyone knows a large chunk of the country who reject the X-Factor mentality. If you read interviews with Simon Cowell even he acknowledges this.
Cowell is ultimately a businessman who wants to make a fuckload of money from music. He also appears to be an egotist who wants to be seen as important. He is not in any sense an idealist.
He's once again achieveed his goal of making a fuckload of money and getting people taking about him. Anyone trying to engage him in an ideological debate is as doomed to failure as it would be to try to "prove" to a lion he shoudn't kill a gazelle. This is a pointless exercise from start to finish.
shame buckley, burke and cohen are all represented by song bmg then
what was that about a monopoly?
I was just thinking about this
looked at Buckleys label (Columbia, now Sony owned) Cohen (Sony BMG owned) and Cowells nonsense (Il Divo etc) all released through Sony. This major label are making a killing. When all the dust clears of the internets impact on the music industry Sony will still be standing but 4AD, Rough Trade, Mute, Warp et al will be shuddering in the corner with purple welts and but days left to live like the two old people at the end of When the Wind Blows.
you don't care for music do you?
:)
All the other versions I've ever heard are better than Burke's and thats not snobbery just my opinion. The Buckley and Cale ones being the best. It's not the first time this has been covered by the way, there are 170 versions!:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7783704.stm
God it riles the shit out of me when people
denounce anti-commercial attitudes as 'indie snobbery'. It shows an utter failure to grasp the complexities of the argument, and its relation to social and economic factors.
In the words of someone with far more sense than I:
"What has become alien to men is the human component of culture, its closest part, which upholds them against the world. They make common cause with the world against themselves, and the most alienated condition of all, the omnipresence of commodities, their own conversion into appendages of machinery, is for them a mirage of closeness."
^this
screamed from the rooftops
I want to say -
<3
Agreed
It makes me despair
^this
Theyre both ultimately owned by sony. Who are making a mint.
The shits.
this is the best marketing ploy ever.
i bet all the record label higher-ups are high-fiving and slobbering over all the money they are getting for these downloads. I'm right in thinking that Jeff Buckley and Alexandra Burke are both on the same label?
Genius.
I mean, Buckley's is better, but genius.
Some folk are making a mint off this cunting 'issue'
Fuck them and fuck this song.
well..
at least Alex puts a bit of feeling into it
Yeah, Jeff Buckley's version
is completely devoid of feeling. Wait, what?
It's like if you got Tina Turner to sing "Lua" by Bright Eyes.
i know, it would be a travesty
to the good name of Tina Turner
urgh.
someone using Tina Turner as an example of "pop bullshit" and Bright Eyes as "good music".
Listen to River Deep Mountain High, you horrid creep.
^
^ this
x 1000
I like the way Tina Turner dances.
I prefer the song Lua to River Deep Mountain High though.
she dances like she's done a poo in her tights
True,
but it was probably a really good poo.
why can't the world
leave Jeff Buckley alone? used in the season finale to The O.C. and now having a chart battle with the X factor winner... jeez.
...
I really can't believe people care. Buckley's version is amazing as is Cohen's original. I haven't heard this Big Brothers / X-Factor version, but I'm guessing a lot of the original feeling has been lost and that most of the people buying it won't care about the history of the song. This isn't the first time this has happened with a cover version.
try to imagine what maria carey would do it
then imagine something similar but much less horrible
his mum'll be pleased then
This thread is shit
Jeff Buckley is shit
John Cale is shit
Simon Cowell is shit
John Brainlove is shit
SHIT OFF MOTHERBASTARD
o hai!
grumpypants
One of the worst products of this social networking society we find ourselves in
is the proliferation of bullshit moral crusades like this. Granted, in this case it's all fairly harmless, but it really, really gets my back up how people somehow feel they're 'making a stand' by joining a fucking Facebook group. These are the same people that 12 months ago would've been 'throwing' 'sheep' at one another
pretty much spot on
this really is a load of shit.
Absolute rot.
Well, not really
As I say, this is one of the more inoffensive campaigns that Facebook has spawned over the last year or so. I couldn't give a shit either way about the Burke/Buckly battle. As far as I'm concerned, it's Leonard Cohen's song, and if he's fine with the X Factor winner covering it, then that's fair enough
I think the tipping point for me was all the Baby P stuff recently. Mass outpouring of mock outrage/grief is just disgusting and embarrasing in equal measure
You say
everyone who has done the Jeff Buckley thing is a Facebook idiot who's into vampire applications etc.
I can say this is absolute rot because I did the Jeff Buckley thing and hate the stupid applications.
So, right there, you're just plain wrong.
Absolutely.
It's the self-righteousness, self-importance and pomposity of it that really bugs me. You get the sense these people feel they're embarking on a major moral crusade of massive global importance.
JOHN BRANLOAF HAS A FACEBOOK GET HIM OFF HE IS A PEADO
1,324,213 members
leonards
version is about a million times better than buckleys. impeach buckley, leonard for world president.
Impeach My Corpse?
The new album by Jeff Buckley?
Sony BMG = Syco
http://www.sonybmgmusic.co.uk/company_news/7749/0/
It all goes the same way. Mo' money for X-Factor.
jeff buckley should have drowned BEFORE recording anything
what a load of bollocks.
wishtwat more like,
...
http://thequietus.com/articles/00850-x-factor-stars-in-seasonal-stand-off-for-1-spot
Wow
There are a lot of ignorant and overly cynical people on this board. I'm well aware that it's a Leonard Cohen song and I'm well aware that the money will mostly be going to major labels, BUT THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT. This isn't about liking Buckley's version more either. To repeat what I said earlier, it's a cultural rejection of the X-factor mentality. They have used a song solely to make money, thus removing it of any worth other than capital. And perhaps it's a stance against Simon Cowell and his approach to music in general. It might not "succeed" (whatever that means), but at least it shows that there are a lot of people out there who feel this way, even though it is still a minority.
urgh
and by buying the song however many times to get it to number one is not "removing it of any worth other than capital"? because, you know, the charts ARE about how many SALES a particular record gets.
anyway, just, urrrgggh.
"You disagree with me, therefore you've missed the point!"
er, no. I just think it's a rubbish form of protest/cultural rejection. I don't think it shows a lot of people 'care', i think it shows a lot of people are willing to blindly throw their cash at something and claim they're 'rejecting the X-factor overlord' or whatever.
Without trying to be holier than thou or whatever, i genuinely had no idea this was going on until this thread. Surely that's a bigger rejection of X-factor? By not letting it affect my life one way or the other, and instead just supporting the music and music scene I love?
it would have been a better 'statement' to have picked an underground/new/independent band with a single out now, for sake of argument Vessels' 'A Hundred Times in Every Direction', than pick a song that is only being used because of X-Factor in the first place. And lines Sony's pockets.
^ Wot he said about wot t'other fella said ^
^bang on.
THIS WOULD NOT HAVE WORKED
"it would have been a better 'statement' to have picked an underground/new/independent band with a single out now, for sake of argument Vessels' 'A Hundred Times in Every Direction', than pick a song that is only being used because of X-Factor in the first place."
SIMPLE.
It's like saying
"well rather than voting for a political party we could make our OWN political party and.."
i.e. impossible blue sky student bollocks
I like how you neatly cut off the last four words of that paragraph
What?
Since when do quotes have to be done in paragraphs?
Another quibbling prick with no point, great
not really
one of the points is that this 'protest' has two outcomes - 1 to get a Jeff Buckley cover of a Leonard Cohen song into the charts and 2, to make money for Sony, a major label who propagate this kind of turd in the first place, which is ridiculous in my opinion - "we hate you, have some of our money!"
The first outcome will be forgotten fairly quickly imo, and has had a fairly minimal impact beyond the people who are crusdaing in the first place. feel free to pat yourself on the back, well done!
Quibbling prick eh? I didn't know your word was so sacrosanct, DO forgive me. Seems a few folk think one thing and few think another, why don't we have a grown up conversation/discussion/whatever about it, without resorting to throwing insults around? Oh no, too late.
Whether you agree with me or not, fine, whatever, but you'veinsulted me a few times on these boards (whether you remember or not) for my opinions, without any real provocation - what the fuck is your problem? Have I met you? Do I know you?
Grow up.
If you talk such snidey toss all the time, I've not surprised I've insulted you on here before.
I don't agree with anything you said.
But you knew that.
I don't really see what I originally said was snidey
in fact, i attempted to distance myself from that sort of stance. Sure i reacted with some, but I don't take well to being insulted by someone i've never met, for an opinion he/she disagrees with. As for snidey, I think you've won in spades for that throughout this thread.
It would seem your protest is based on the grounds that you accept you can't make any real impression on the X-factor/Cowell behemoth, and so you make a (in my opinion, flippant) stance to - what exactly?
Show everyone 'people power'? Isn't this backed by The Sun? That bastion of reason and bias free reporting? The readership of the sun is 3 million or something, getting the paltry support of 20,000 of those isn't a major achievment. Besides, it would appear many folk have bought multiple downloads. That doesn't demonstrate people power, it's merely trying to dictate what the 'musical culture' should be via input of wealth.
Give the X-factor a bloody nose? As if! 1, they don't care, and 2, it's so easy to put a positive PR spin on this, as you're using the same song that they are - and losing! I personally don't think you are 'losing', I don't see the charts and music in that light, but surely you must see how little this affects Cowell and co? The vast majority of the people this message of yours will reach are those who already agree with you. There may be a few who are exposed to the Buckley cover who wouldn't have been otherwise, but I really, really think that'll be minimal. And not much more than when people pass along music the old fashioned way, through word of mouth (like when I gave my little sister a copy of Grace a few years back, which she loves)
Using the charts to wage this war in just seems backwards - who looks at the charts any more? Even the christmas one? CD singles are becoming scarcer and scarcer, and I thought almost everyone knew they were dominated by a very young demographic, who are obviously going to majorly influenced by a saturday evening prime time TV show. I would have thought accepting it and focusing your energies elsewhere would be a more productive use of your time and passion for music.
I started reading that but I hate you
xxx
feeling's mutual Honey Bunny
xox
What Royster said.
a cultural protest that involves giving a major label
a whole pile of money?
It's like Cadbury's and the Wispa
All over again.
You know
I actually started out being on your side before this whole "thing" kicked off. I agree - it does seem like only a minor form of cultural protest. We could be doing a lot more. But I think I finally understand the "it's better to do something rather that nothing" mentality, something I was always against. Even if that something is just a slightly flawed minor protest. When Mad World got to no. 1 I was also fairly happy, again not because it was a great song (and it was another major label victory) but mostly because there were a lot of people complaining that it wasn't "right" in some way, that it was too "depressing". It was nice to see these odd beliefs brought to the attention of the general populace and discussed. It's the same with this. Yes, the major labels will be making a killing. Yes it's not exactly the best song in the world. The whole thing does seem a little flawed in principle. But the fact that people are probably discussing the merits of this all over the country is still a win as far as encouraging public debate is concerned, because it means that the problems with X-factor are being brought to light country-wide. Whether people take notice or give a crap at all is another question entirely.
I think you're spot on.
On a purely personal note, I've always been protective of 'Grace' - I've always enjoyed listening to it as a whole, all the way through, because it hangs together so magnificently. I've deliberately avoided skipping through to certain tracks or putting individual songs on mixtapes, so as to to keep the album as a whole as "fresh" as possible, if that makes sense. So while I agree with what you've said, speedkills, I wince at Buckley's 'Hallelujah' being the subject of this campaign - it means that today I heard it belting out of someone's tiny Mac speakers in the office, fuzzy and on repeat, until it made me want to scream. It's great that people are being switched onto Buckley through all this, but I worry that it'll tarnish 'Grace' when I listen to it next because I'll be sick of hearing that song. I guess we all have songs and albums we feel that way about, and I'm really glad people are appreciating a song I love. I'm not snobby about it - it's just the overplaying that gets to me!
OMG thats the X-factor single!
I just assumed it was just a new record for leona lewis! I herd it on the radio and the guy didnt say who it was so I just herd the annoying whaling noises and just assumed she was doing more "not quite so good" covers of famous songs...
Well just goes to show how they all sound the same...and I did actually think that they created new songs for the actual release...I'd credited them with at least a bit of pride...i was obviously wrong.
John Cale's version is easily the best
Why not that instead of Buckley's
cos of like bandwagons and all that
It's not on iTunes.
It's not as well known.
People care less about it.
etc
It was never on The OC
Is this thread really STILL going?
Well.
Yes, vamos.
Yes, it is.
But someone already posted the Popjustice link`?
Surely thats the end of thread?
No.
Why would it be?
It was wrong.
GOD FORBID
ANYONE WITH A TASTE IN MUSIC EVER BUYS A CD AGAIN
I think this thread in some ways represents
Everything I love and hate about modern society, the internet and music in general
^
Seconded
man i actually read this holy shit.
http://www.drownedinsound.com/community/boards/music/4150842#r4122557 - the one post worth reading. excluding this incredible contribution.
Maybe we should just declare this thread closed and talk about something else?
I mean, it's been really interesting, but I can't see any more progress being made....
The thing...
...that confuses me most about this episode is... why is the supposed 'point' behind this campaign a 'point' which is worth making? I just don't get it...
Yes.
The point is:
"Leave this song alone. We like the old one. Look, we like it so much, it's in the top 10 showing your version up. Your pop covers are defacing awesome classic music, and we do not like it, Cowell & co, you horrible soulless industry fucks."
Hmm
"Leave this song alone" - why?
"It's in the top 10 showing your version up" - well... it's not really is it? Not in a quantitative sense anyway.
"Your pop covers are defacing awesome classic music" - well... the awesome classic music which is supposedly defacing is STILL there in the form it was in BEFORE all this happened.
"Horrible, soulless" - Jeff Buckley IS horrible AND soulless. Well, he WAS anyway...
Not a very good point.
Just out of interest
how quantitatively horrible and soulless was Jeff Buckley?
he's the indie mariah carey
^ Massive truth
In response to Soodoughnim though - horribleness and soullessness are difficult to quantitatively measure.
However for the latter if you LISTEN to Grace and then plot a graph with 'Effort Made By Singer' on one axis and with 'Degrees of Genuine and Believable Emotion Communicated' on the other, I'm sure it would reveal Buckley to be an utter, utter fraud.
He had large breasts
and borderline mental health problems?
I should have emphasised the snidey point I was making.....I want to know why quantitative was brought into the question at all.
"It's in the top 10 showing your version up" - well... it's not really is it? Not in a quantitative sense anyway.
"Horrible, soulless" - Jeff Buckley IS horrible AND soulless. Well, he WAS anyway... cos those are not baseless unmeasurable opinions at all
I don't really like or loathe Buckley, breasts or not.
It was brought in...
Because John Brainlove was saying that "it's in the Top 10 showing your version up".
The Top 10 is a quantitative measure of music because it is about ranking songs based on how many units of them are sold. Which means, whichever song which has the highest number of units sold next to it at the end of each given week is given the status of 'Number 1'. Therefore it is a quantitative measure of a song's popularity.
Now, Brainlove is saying that Buckley's song being at Number 3 is "showing up" X Factor's song. Which it isn't doing because it hasn't sold as many units. The only way in which Buckley's song CAN show up X Factors song is a quantitative one - by having a larger of number of units sold next to it and therefore it having a higher placing on the chart. It isn't doing that and seeing as the chart is purely a quantitative entity (poor use of English but hey) then this shows that Buckley's song is not showing it up. Quantitatively.
I had a conversation about this tody with the younger lads in my office.
They said most people their age would probably have assumed it was an original if it wasn't for the Jeff Buckley version arriving neatly in the charts beside it.
I didn't mean quantatively when I said showing the Alex version up, by the way. But I'll assume you knew that.
Really?
And what's the harm in them assuming it was an original?
My girlfriend didn't know that Jose Gonzalez'z popular hit 'Heartbeats' - a song which she very much enjoys - was a cover until I pointed that out the other day... She still enjoys the original. And what's more, her enjoyment of music and the role it has to play in her life remains unchanged. No-one was harmed in the making of my enlightening of her...
Do you mean Buckley's version is showing up yer woman from X Factors by virtue of it being a superior version and it standing alongside hers in the charts? If so, once again, I fail to see how this is a point worth making...
Okay, so you fail to see how this is a point worth making.
I can live with that.
Aye
The quality of my life also is roughly the same as it was before all of this happened. Awesome!
And in relation to the lads in the office:
I remember when all of what I listened to was basically what was in the charts. So I daresay having those two versions of the song there will open a lot of ears. If Buckley is still in the top ten by the weekend.
And make stuff like this happen:
http://www.nme.com/news/jeff-buckley/41706
Oooh oooh
Following on from this... maybe it's the case that when musicians list their influences that they should actually be listing the shit pop musicians who did covers of decent songs which turned their ears to more worthy influences. That'd be interesting...
I see
I didn't take it that way as such. More that the Buckley one was in charts near the xfactor version and perhaps drawing some comparison because of that; not a straight duke out for the title. I can only say what I took it to mean of course, not the actual intent.
Snidey points made Baby Jesus cry...
:(
It's his birthday soon
I'm sure he'll get over it what with all the myrrh and stuff.
The IRS approves of this thread
and multiple versions of the song achieving many sales.
Questions:
do you think that Alex feels nothing when she sings this song, that she's merely going through the motions? Or do you think she has connected with it, applied it to her own life, made an emotional attachment to it? Do you think that Cowell has any emotional connection to it? (RE: that last one - the Buckley version is one of his favourite songs. Louis Walsh prefers the Cohen version, and is also a fan of the Wainwright one)
do you think that whoever signed/promoted Buckley didn't think "hey, this guy is pretty cute. And he has a commercial sound. If we play this right we can make this guy pretty big"? Do you think marketability played any part in his being thrust into the position he was in? Or are you living in a dream world?
Questions in return:
Do you think the Cohen, Cale, Buckley and Alex Whoever versions contain an equal amount of artistic merit?
Re: Jeff Buckley getting signed, it's actually pretty interesting. The pre-label Sin-é period when people were queuing around the block to see him. I love those early records. He's just staggeringly talented, and it's very obvious that there's something special about him.
But you don't care about that, you mostly just like mouthing off and picking fights with me, huh. Anyway:
Anyone who enters the major label system has their "marketability" considered, of course. I've heard some pretty interesting / hilarious conversations on the subject. But I don't get what you're trying to achieve by stating that point. It's like saying anything that gets put in Tesco is screened for hygiene and therefore tastes the same.
Are you, and the other anti-critique people in this thread, saying that you think anyone who lifts mic deserves the same level of artistic appreciation and respect, be it a wedding singer, TV "talent contest" winner or a dead singer-songwriter who is widely considered to be one of the finest singers of a generation?
Because it seems to be leaning that way, and I find the oversimplification required to actually think that way ... troublesome.
Also, this thread has been one of those that turns into a logic-free mouth-off-fest in which it's impossible to talk about anything properly. But her, people like these conversational car crash threads, huh.
Conversational car crash threads
Love em. Fucking love em.
Alex
I doubt she even knows what she's singing about. Anyone who can see an emotional attachment in that recording which is a string of laughable cliches has really bought into the ridiculour X-factor idea of what constitutes good singing.
Innit!
Braying out a technically competent series of notes/words while concentrating on looking sincere and striking a good pose is NOT good singing.
It's godawful obnoxious showboating for TV.
FUCK the fucking X-Factor and all that fame-hungry distasteful desperate bullshit.
_
"Braying out a technically competent series of notes/words while concentrating on looking sincere and striking a good pose is NOT good singing."
sounds like jeff buckley to me
You're wrong.
Simon Cowell apparently makes loads of money off the Buckley version too.
Brainy darling
it's nothing personal, these are just some observations on the matter. I think your position is understandable, people don't like their favourite songs to be tarnished with negative associations, or be used by people in a way that isn't in keeping with their perceptions. But if Alex has some feeling for the song, if she puts some of her SOUL into the song, then what exactly makes this different from any of the hundreds of other cover versions? That Cowell is involved? Obviously commercial concerns come into play, but he has proclaimed it to be a song that he loves - Cowell's viewpoint is very much in keeping with the commercial aspect of songs, he likes what is commercial, he is drawn to that certain style of polished pop music. To say that he has no right to touch this song because of the sphere he operates in is snobbish in the extreme. And the whole "artistic merit" issue is very shaky ground: what constitutes this, and if Alex's version is "lacking" it then is it so lacking that it falls below a threshold of what is an "acceptable level of artistic merit"? Because that seems like bullshit to me
And the whole thing about marketability is this - Jeff wasn't in some separate bubble away from all this, he was very much a part of the process. The X Factor is far deeper into this process, yes, but how exactly does that make it so much more deserving of criticism?
This whole argument is a load of anti-X Factor lightweight bollocks which has been jumped upon by various unsavoury, shortsighted people. Not saying you fall into this category at all, but some of your facebook compadres certainly do.
Anyway, I like the X Factor and prefer Tim
pfft
buy something worthwhile in your lives. Like the new Fennesz record.
:P
293 replies
for fuck sake guys. For. Fuck. Sake.
Two points proved in this thread:
1. The 'protest' is a massive fail in every respect, the most apparent tangible outcome being the polar opposite of what the do-gooders intended; the X Factor is so abhorrent to them that they feel the need to engage with and fight it, and to continue to promote and pump it's cultural impact. The final show was the most watched TV programme in the UK for 5 years, so clearly some people like it - if you don't like the X Factor, don't watch it. If you don't like the music, don't buy it. This pathetically childish playground-esque campaign is futility masquerading as morality, Daily Mail-lite politics played out by the (probably) well-meaning, but (certainly) misguided. Get over yourselves, cultural apartheid is no solution to your lack of tolerance. This isn't political activism, it's closer to bullying, all because different people have different points of view, different tastes, different opinions. There is no 'issue' here to fight or challenge, talk of 'doing something' against 'doing nothing' is meaningless. Lots of people like the X Factor and buy the music: Big Deal! That's ALL there is to it: attaching any further meaning sounds like a cry of self-importance. Music moguls release manufactured karaoke krap and make money from it, and so the wheels turn, as ever. I don't like celery, but I don't start a Facebook group and write to the Daily Mail ... I just avoid it. We live in an internet age where people invent issues in order to artificially solve non-existant problems, where collective negative outpouring is seen as positive action. This 'action' (in-action) is a more damning indictment of our society than any X Factor TV show will ever be. And it's fucking sad.
2. John Brainlove is a whiney tedious bitch, who's seemingly rather dim.
my favourite brainlove debating technique
is when he throws all his toys out of the pram and refuses to engage his opponent anymore because there's no point arguing with such a big idiot! of course, all of these posts are in response to logical, well thought out, tempered critiques but fuck differing view points!
the greatest thing is all that this campaign really achieves is giving sony bmg (label of buckley, cohen, burke) big money and even more incentive to do much the same thing ad infinitum since they've managed to reach a whole demographic that would never have bought a christmas single previously! congrats, your impotent rage is that much more impotent as it basically encourages everything you're fighting against.
Yeah?
It gets to a point at which the constant logic fails make me want to punch someone. There's literally no point in carrying on because you're just going to get another few paragraphs of wheedling logic fails to claw through.
this isn't true though
you just ignore every point which actually hits home. you still haven't addressed the issue of all the artists being on the same label (the label that presumably puts funds towards x factor and is also more than likely even happier than usual with what x factor has achieved specifically for the campaign you're supporting) amongst numerous others berksy, manwithnousername, braindrain and countless others have brought up. its much easier to argue your point without all those annoying contradictions though, eh?
Also:
As a rule, when a debate/argument ends up being about the way the argument is formed, it's basically fallen to the lowest level and needs to stop.
I would say the lowest level is when insults are slung about
get bent massive homolord
coulnt agree more
musical snobbery at its worst
I just think it's really kind of hilarious that this supposed
rejection of mainstream culture, and rejection of the X Factor generation's values, and celebration of "true art" is taking place mainly using facebook. FACEBOOK. Pretty much the defining symbol of everything this crappy campaign is supposedly trying to overthrow or whatever.
But yeah, FUCK THE MASSES \m/
wow
this thread is a quagmire
I can think of 1 plus point for this campaign and in that a reason for doing it;
it will expose some (young) people to alternate versions that may lead them to discover music they actually like rather than to just enjoy consuming music that they are exposed to
On the other hand;
Isn't your tax money being used to buy bombs, mines, missiles and general wartoys for the purpose of engaging media crafted 'enemies' and ultimately murdering civilians in a middle east conflict that was sold on a pack of lies in order to facilitate the consolidation of power on a North Atlantic axis ?
Fight the Power!
This all remind me of 2003...
A shitty cover of a decent song will go to number 1, whilst an honest, wholesome Christmas song will have to settle for number (insert number excluding 1 and 3). I'd start a campaign to get "Don't let the bells end" to numero uno but it's probably too late...
At least a song mentioning the Lord will be top at Christmas. That's never a bad thing, is it?
Heathens....
Makes for a good debate
I really like cover songs in general and hearing the different versions, how someone will put a different spin on it. As (I'd never heard it before) but the John Cale version is good. Some seemingly half-intelligible YouTube comments say that he was the first to rearrange the original Leonard Cohen version, any truth to that?
Alexandra's version I actually do like, I expected much worse before I heard it for all the whining. She sings it well but I can see how it's thought as a bit more hollow overall.
Jason Castro of American Idol, on the other hand, is just all right. If he was random dude playing open mic at the coffee shop somewhere it would be impressive, but he loses me at the enunciating the "do ya?" as "do you?" Lastly, perhaps I was better off never having heard the Bono version were it not such a hilariously-bad crap-spoken word version. Thanks for your snark, Pop Justice.
The putting two and two together of Sony benefiting from either sale is well made. It's win-win for them. The whole protest/whatever is also amplifies the massive publicity that comes with a Christmas number one as well.
It is really boring to have the X-Factor-winner-of-the-moment always get the Christmas number one. The protestors should invest their energy in getting X Factor moved to another part of the year.
Re. Sony
I popped into HMV on Oxford St last night, and the first thing you are greeted with is a plinth with the Burke single, Grace, and a Leonard Cohen greatest hits
Let's be honest, it's clear that Sony have welcomed all this 'outrage' with open arms. The fact that the X Factor winner is singing a version of a song already released by two of Sony's celebrated artists proves they knew what they were doing. Since downloads have been included within the official charts, there's been quite a few examples of old songs re-appearing in the top 40 due to appearing on a soundtrack, advert, or being sung on televised talent shows. Sony isn't stupid - it's schooled in publicising its artists and making as much money out of them as possible
All of the Facebook do-gooders have just been sucked in, and here we all are discussing it, perpetuating the story
silly...
very silly and what a waste of time and money. i despair.
Buckley is only loved by people because he died
Discuss.
Bullshit.
He was adored and doing bigger gigs all the time...
discuss? i'd say it was fact....
his music is awful, awful, awful. really cannot understand why people are getting annoyed coz someone has done a cover version of a song that's been covered about 10 times before. utter waste of energy (note to self: why am i bothering to post on here?). this is no different to unchained melody which i don't remember any fuss about...
i've a good mind to buy the x-factor version just to piss a few people off, but i don't need to, the mum's will do that for me..... and who wins regardless of what version is number 1? simon cowell.
jeff buckley, muse, coldplay, girl from x-factor, they are all fucking shit.
Yeah? Yawn.
Haha, this sounds like a dying HAL in 2001 ... "logic fail, logic fail", the hopeless cries of a thoughtless automaton.
So go ahead and punch someone Einstein, yourself preferably, your ego seems to be in need of a small victory; that might be one you could win, though I wouldn't bet on it.
"the hopeless cries of a thoughtless automaton"
lol
i just find the whole thing
excruciatingly dull. i imagine some other people have said so in this thread [it's long and i'm at work so cannae be arsed to read the whole thing] so i won't bang on at length about it. haven't heard the x-factor version. i like buckley and cohen's versions, but dear me. i'd rather spend my money on music i haven't already got. new bands, something unfamiliar, that sort of thing. haven't we all got better things to do and more pressing concerns than trying to get a particular version of the same song to number 1?
p.s. the x-factor phenomenon utterly baffles me - i do not understand why people with access to and knowledge of so much music are bothered.
toy-pram-throw
Brainlove's inane replies are the equivalent of a child poking a stick through a cage at the zoo, who then goes crying to mummy when the lion roars at him. Do you say "oopsie" as well as "lol"?
Is ickle Paul Hawkins a lion in this scenario?
Your similes are awful.
That was utterly unnecessary and makes you look rather silly.
Besides, I'm a lion in every scenario.
I think what really fucks me off about this protest is I absolutely love the Jeff Buckley version of Hallelujah and the fact it's being hijacked by the random assortment of cynics, nutjobs and dial-a-protest arseholes involved with this campaign is really putting me off the song. The X Factor version hasn't ruined Buckley's version in my eyes but it being turned into some symbol of resistance for a pointless protest campaign might yet do so.
And we once again return to the question of why the hell you
a) cope so abysmally people disagreeing with you
b) accuse me of carrying our argument on past a point we were both bored of it and then bring it up once again.
I'll reiterate: If you don't want to engage with me in a discussion on this then don't. That suits me fine and I'm tired of arguing with someone who is naive, simplistic and frankly a bit of a bore.
But in that case can you please bringing me back into the discussion?
Thanks.
while I find the effort commendable
If you choose to ignore X-Factor and everything else like it, then it really has little effect on your everyday life. I was blissfully ignorant that the X Factor version was even being released until I came across the Facebook protest, and I've yet to even hear it - which suits me fine. I know it will be crap and it doesn't bother me. I love Buckley as an artist and I love his version of the song, and that's all I need to know. If people just calmed the fuck down and took a deep breath before freaking out about what Simon Cowell's up to these days, they might realise that it really doesn't matter. Let the pigs enjoy their swill, and I'll continue snuffling for truffles.
I don't know if this has been pointed out beforehand, but it's also worth noting that the X-Factor version is being released on Syco which is owned by SonyBMG. Jeff Buckley's version was released on Columbia, which is also under the SonyBMG umbrella. Who's really winning in this competition?
The lion's a lion ....
We'll get some pictures drawn, perhaps then you can follow the story better. Floundering?