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Anyone else see this?
Awful awful AWFUL sickening crap.
£9.33 per record AFTER distribution fees, chain store discounts etc etc.
I had to stop listening before that, but if the person who just told me they said that didn't mishear... sweet jesus.
to get over £3 for a record sold at a tenner
I couldn't quite believe the numbers they were quoting.
...was paying for all the distro/promo fees etc.
The money from the album sales was going straight back to themselves.
You don't get £9.33 from an album sale, even ignoring the costs all together.
It almost sounds like they were working out what it would retail for and forgetting that that isn't the revenue that you recieve.
they are going to get rid of 30,000 - bands like the futureheads, santogold have all struggled over the 20 mark this year..
getting 30,000 made on a first run seems somewhat foolhardy.
not foolhardy - would be cheaper to do them in mass. or at least they should get the parts printed.
i guess they could flog them in covent garden for the next twenty years.
either that or they are going to be performing sexual acts for peter jones for as many years..
also 5k for their video? i would love to have 5k to make a video for them.. on the condition that it didn't have any of the ugly fuckers in it!
But you're still going to be paying for several thousand records that you're not going to sell, and fairly soon be forced to pay for the storage of them when your distributor realises they're shifting slower than a Babylon Zoo best of.
that's assuming that a distributor is foolish enough to sign a deal with them..
there were a few of them - six? so i'm sure they have enough room under their beds. or maybe under peter jones' bed?
they might sell them but probably with massive retro discounts.. but that's cool cause they had, what £15k for promo?
that's more than the new css album!
"Sorry! Due to overwhelming demand this website has fallen over."
You've got to wonder if they stuck that up at 9pm.
HAMFATTER GOT 75K ON DRAGON'S DEN!?
BUT THEY'RE BOLLOCKS!
it's not exactly a large budget and youthmovies budget isn't as far from that figure as you'd expect. not that many of you have gone out and bought the record after downloading it.
maybe that "£75,000" could have been better spent distributing good nature slightly more effectively than on promotion. having bought all of their prior releases (including the first DiS Redjetson split) and seem them live many times, the hardest thing I have had to do since youthmovies is to actually find a physical copy of good nature (the "breakthrough album").
living in bristol; fopp / the beat goes on / HMV / zavvi all managed to be either not stocking youthmovies or have only hurrah... (Fierce Panda seemed to do a much better job)
HMV on oxford st. and that rough trade east also didnt stock it on my last visit to london - which seems pretty odd. and after ordering it off HMV online their distribution failed.
i digress..I dont agree with excessive downloads of new bands, but how can you expect people to buy albums if its not on sale anywhere?
I realise I could have bought it elsewhere online, btw - but thats not the point in terms of physical distribution.
sorry to moan, but I have been meaning to post something about this - and your wry comment got me going
when you guys failed to make it easily available and screwed up big time.
I bought it eventually on play.com anyway.
The novelty alone should ensure that any investors recoup their dosh without much of a problem. The quality of the band is irrelevant.
was this filmed, i.e. where the hell are they with their uber-marketing campaign if this was filmed six months ago - or has it cynically been timed to go out at the high point of their exposure (yet the nadir of their career, fucking knobrots).
on iTunes by the looks of it, clicking the link from their site. First I've heard of it, being honest.
30 second preview sounds bloody awful.
don't get the money until it's aired
The fact that this band got handed the money in the first place is the problem that I have with this.
i'd recognise the novelty factor from the off and would stump up the cash regardless of the quality of the band...
It's potentially a good financial punt. Strip away the business/finance aspect of it and it's disgusting.
What was the deal, 30%? So they'd need PROFIT of 250,000 to recoup. With an average dealer price on the album they'd need to flog nearly 40,000 copies to get that without even taking off distribution, manufacture, PR and marketing or any of that gunf.
Even with the deal on sales going forward or even other revenues, the effect will reduce over time given how awful they are. Really can't see it coming off at all.
Perhaps with a band with decent quality that looked like they could be sold well to a wide market, but really, they didn't even have that going for them.
Maybe my maths is all over the place at 10pm. Wouldn't be surprised.
hahaha, it's not even the best venue in Leeds...
when you get a record deal. That'll be never then.
how to make friends etc.
'Lazy Baby'? Seriously?
according to their myspace.
And yes, I did research them, but that was the point of them going on DD.
Also, does anyone understand their name?
that it means a mediocre performer, or something along those lines.
i'm not surprised Hamfatter aren't going down well in DiS land.
They're really not your generic 'indie' band, they're a lot more pop (not in that comercial rubbish sense) orientated than indie to be honest.
They're pretty fine at what they do and have been slogging it out for years. The thing that surprised us is how strong their pitch actually was (in terms of knowing-their-shit).
They are a million worse bands in the country than hamfatter, quite a few ones that are better. Unfornatuly the nature of the music business means that the rubbish ones end up on the radio and the ones with some talent don't. These guys have done great in Cambridge (sold out the junction which is pretty large and headlined Strawberry Fair) and hopefully they'll do well enough to make a living doing what they love.
they were clearly in suits for the show, i can tell you that the drummer works in a coffee shop and they all play in other musical things to survive.
very admirable, but they're still another generic guitar pop band that'll go much the same way as Envy And Other Sins. They're not veey good
Prediction: Their next album will sell middlingly well because of the publicity generated. They'll use the money to record the next one, but won't have as much money to do so, and will in no way have the kind of momentum they did fo the first post Dragons Den. The album will sell not much because most of the people who bought the last off of the TV publicity would have forgotten about them. They're now faced with a future of giving 30% of not much away, meaning they're unable to afford to record anything else without splitting up the band and anulling the contract.
but not constantly berated on DiS for it - that's what MOST music is like. What's the big flipping surprise?
Got a name as godawful as Hamfatter?
your band were one of the worst in cambridge. by quite some way.
i just never was a fan of you guys.
that must take some doing.
There's a schism within the Cambridge scene...
The entire industry quivers.
they could play and had some catchy tunes, they're not really my bag though.
i had no idea they were still going, i think the singer is pretty instrumental in the organisation of strawberry fair... could be wrong....
still, great pr.
because Fergal Sharky was on BBC breakfast this morning and basically said that the sums in their pitch were way off.
and I turned over immediately after they started playing.
Also what the hell is that thing between that guys eyebrows?!?!
i didn't realise you ended up in Look See Proof. I was talking about Linda's Nephew. My old old band played with you at the moon once.
hah anyway myspace.com/holmenated. Beat that LOL
because you were supposed to play a show here in york but you cancelled without warning and i was supporting and had to do an impromptu headline set which went really well and i got mad props for. cheers linda's nephew!
that they have the same PR company as Sandi Thom. I.e. the whole thing is a crappy stunt.
unless one of them is using two pr companies? sandi thom is with 'quite great' and hamfatter are with 'the outside organisation'
which is probably more of a factor than the whole 'PR WOW' thing that you might associate with the sandi thom farce.
I never was one for facts.
FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF
If some rich fools are willing to throw £75,000 grand in my direction to allow me to sell my music with no pay-back agreement, I'd snap at the chance.
You're only pissed 'cuz you're jealous.
to the reaction here.
But I must say "I hate bands that get on TV to further their careers", the vast majority of bands will aim top get TV exposure one way or another, as part of their promotional activity, so that's a little bit harsh.
What's wrong with a band getting on TV?
..."well, if i go to the bank, there'll be £10,000,000 in it".
He's had more expensive farts than the buttons he's throwing at these guys.
and because of that, I'm out.
I'm not the only person wound up by this shit.
after they'd finished playing one of their songs!
You can't be in a band long-term (and have any success) without thinking about the business side. unless someone else is doing that for you.
I should be supporting someone on the internet I've never met who holds views I disagree with. My mistake.
Who are you to state what a person should deem more valuable to them... if money is a person's motivation, good on 'em. If music is a person's motivation, good on 'em. Don't get high and mighty.
where Ray Davies complains he's being ripped off? I'd call that taking care of business.
1) No matter how much you have 'researched' the bands, unless they have explicitly stated they're in it for the money you're making assumptions.
2) re: eating babies. Using an example that's both illegal and morally reprehensible is a pretty weak argument. How does it relate to decisions about making money?
establish whether music has more sincerity, or indeed state that someone trying to make money from being a musician is any less sincere. Ialso still don't really see why it is that important.
of examples of songs about heartbreak that seem pretty sincere to me, but surely you can think of some too?
as a music fan, i would expect bands' highest priority to be the music they make. it's perfectly legitimate to criticise a band for putting financial interest at the centre of their band at the expense of their music and to try and defend that is surely contrary to the principles of music as "art". they are musicians! they are defined by the fact they make music, not money.
im not criticising bands for making money, but when you say "if money is a person's motivation, good on 'em", i absolutely cannot agree. go into business if your primary ambition is to make money.
"As a music fan, I would expect bands' highest priority to be the music they make."
So would I.
But I'm not that naive.
I can see where you're coming from in terms of all your previous points (except the eating babies thing!), but I just cannot agree.
i know there are bands who are in it for the money. i acknowledge they exist. however i absolutely do not condone it as good practice, or value their existence. my problem was with just leaving them be and shrugging it off simply because it happens. i am aware that it is impossible to stop this happening, but that doesn't make criticism of it any less valid. bands of this ilk should be abhorred.
with someone that is making music, has artistic intent, but is realistic that they need to feed themselves? Why is there such a kneejerk reaction about bands actually making a financial success of what they do?
we should start talking about whether intent or interpretation is important, because generally I don't give a shit what the band was thinking about when making their music - I judge it on whether it interests, entertains me, makes me think, not on whether the band's moral and social values map to those I hold personally.
I thought music was supposed to be entertaining, not a indier-than-thou pissing contest?
though I appreciate you may not believe me. The amount that a band grabs me may well be coloured by statements they have made, artwork, how they are publicised... lots of peripheral things, but their reasons for actually writing the music seem fairly unimportant to me.
You wouldn't consider it relevant if someone wrote music you thought was totally devoid of musical appeal, but was super sincere would you?
And back to Hamfatter (who I genuinely don't think I'd have any time for, but it's a good conversation) the money they got doesn't exactly propel them into the leagues of the super-rich, or even promise to sustain them for more than the release of a single album, so I don't know if you can even have issues with this being a 'sellout'.
and it beats having to fight John Lydon [safety wink]
I probably should have said worthier-than-thou, but that isn't a catchy phrase.
"the comforting goodness of someone being on your side, or the sadness of loss through the medium of song"
But I *can* feel this, in exactly the same way you do, but without the need to validate whether my reaction is 'correct' or aligns with the artist's intent.
You're totally missing my point. I'm not responding to music objectively - I'm just not assigning much importance to what the artist intended.
Unless you personally know all of the musicians that you listen to, your opinion on their intent are likely to be as accurate as any response that I might have. Neither approach is any closer to the truth, but I don't think that the musician's 'truth' it is at all important.
Yes I agree, but however you access music - from the internet, record shop, at a gig, wherever - it is in a form that's unambiguously an artistic endeavour rather than some chance interesting confluence of sounds. Someone packaged it.
Unless you only listen to music that drifts towards you on the breeze I'd say your point's obvious enough to be assumed.
Right... enough internet discussion for one day!
I will do my best, yes. Ta!
everyone who's been emailing me the link back to my 2002 review of them on here.I thought their name sounded familiar when I saw the show but I had to all intents and purposes forgotten about them. I suspect the same will be true in about three months time.
That said, I like the idea of bands bypassing the traditional record company deal anyway they can. Private equity firms and investors like the dragons exist purely to make money so why not invest in a band as much as a bank? Both have the capacity to make or lose your money.
THE MONEY WAS FOR THE SAUCE - HE WAS ONLY PLAYING THE FUCKING GUITAR TO ADVERTISE THE SAUUUUUCE!!!!
wouldn't buy it but it far from annoyed me.
I've got more pressing issues to get worked up about.
Thanks for listening.
Even my beloved radio station has been infected by this disgusting band.
(I realise the irony in arguing that Radio 2 play a disgusting band when their playlist is pretty awful normally).
Btw, this is the most amount of responses I've ever had to one of my threads - I feel genuinely popular and appreciated. Erm..."cough".
never trust a man with a little spike pushed through the top of his nose.
It might have been a terrible accident!
It seemed to work its way through his front teeth on its way up there.
saw that last night, they'll be all over the radio and everything from now until next year.
Their manager looked like an idiot, though.
at the end of that thread accuses everyone of following the crowd then mentions Los Camp.
Good times, right there.
Depends on how many implosions a day you can handle really.
that particular poster has called everyone I know a cunt at some point. Don't be too upset.
just how bloody awful the band sounded. Nevermind the business of the deal, they were just a shit band.
pretty soulless really :/
in several interviews they are in it for the money. Guess what? I don;t give a shit.
They have also made one of my favourite albums of the year.
That's partly what annoyed me enough to post in the first place.
will have a nap now :)