Is it me or has this aged very well?
a genius album
is not affected with time.
the second half is pretty much untouchable
Surely Mansun are due some kind of critical revival soon? Six seems to have taken on a life of its own in recent years just by word of mouth, so it can't be long now...
it's very much of it's time.
you can tell it was recorded around the time that pro tools was introduced - they use a different plug in on almost every line. someone is even credited as using pro tools ans nothing else.
and my dream 'don't look back' set !
Really?! - i'll never be able to listen to this album with the same ears again!
p.s. Are you studying music technology at Uni by any chance?
then followed it up with the almost entirely dreadful Little Kix. What the hell happened in those two years between the albums?!
The last lp they did was great, Klepomania. They didnt leave on a sour note.
It later transpired that Paul Draper had been removed from his position of band producer by the record company, to make sure than the album was more “independent Local radio friendly.” The band found themselves crippled as an artistic force, and were faced with having lyrics changed and altered, and other songs the band had written off being pushed to the fore as singles. The band were effectively pushed into putting "Fool" onto the album, and despite the band's misgivings for the song it was also released as a single, generally considered to be their poorest offering. "Until the Next Life" was always intended to be a single, after the album's release the band hoped to re-record the song as a single, as the version on the album is essentially a home demo which was touched up in the studio.
This outside interference had an understandably negative effect on the band, in particular Paul Draper, who felt the band was already beginning to end.
In late 2005, in a fan interview, when asked what had led to Mansun splitting, Andie Rathbone replied simply; "Little Kix".
When LK came out, I absolutely adored it; it still gets the odd play now and again, but Six is just...mind-altering. Definitely one of the ten best albums ever made.
to follow Six, which is unending brilliance, with such an abomination as Little Kixx was, to a Mansun fan, a massive wallop in the face.
That said, I Can Only Disappoint U was an amazing single.
If this wiki quote is true then it certainly explains A LOT.
bought little kix for a pound t'other day. Yet to listen to it, could be good for a spray paint stencil though if all else fails
Parlophone were so annoyed about Six, they banned Mansun from self-producing Little Kix and made them demo songs. The record company then picked the ones they liked and brought in an external producer to record them. The band were reduced pretty much to session musicians.
#ahem# Thanks awisgard.
Hugely underrated band, says I - awesome live, great for b-sides, and nice guys too...
this is a great album! Need to give it another listen, been many years.
I'm consistently amazed by the reaction it gets these days. So much love, and deservedly so.
Paul's unseen 'Making Of SIX' footage is here btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir2YxH5pkHE
Terrific live band too. I miss 'em :'(
Opening few notes on Legacy, just spine tingling
You have final say over a strangers top 10 do you?
Perhaps Senor Wisgard believes it to be in his PERSONAL top 10 albums? I doubt he will be slipping into your bedroom at night and exchanging all your Official Top 10 Records for copies of Six, so just simmer down there.
Wisgard is right though - Six is utter genius. They won't get back together because, well, they just won't. You heard it here 1st. Or maybe 2nd. But pretty early.
Go back to the 80's and die there.
I bet you like Mild cheese too you loser!
i suggest you grow one - you'll have a lot more fun here, trust me :)
So you force blocks of mild cheese up your shitter then? Different strokes etc.
Poor kid. The 80's were terrible for mild cheese, it must have been awful for you.
Suede had Dog Man Star.
Manics had Holy Bible.
Mansun had Six.
Only one of them sounds ahead of its time, and that's Six.
It's great for all us miserable Mansun lovers to finally be vindicated. Especially given all the smug journalists at the time who were simply too cowardly to say anything intelligent about Six, and instead fell back on: "Er. They dress funny. Oasis are much harder. Er. I like Lager" etc.
kind of anticipating a Holy Bible-like status it never quite achieved.
I find all the tales of record label interference very sad, because really, for a mental, record label-baiting album it was actually pretty commercial - Legacy was their biggest ever hit, the radio edit of Being a Girl did well, you know, I'm sure they'd have got to the 'right place' to sell a bunch of records if they'd been allowed to get on with stuff. Certainly if you compare it to The Holy Bible then it's silly not to remember what came after The Holy Bible.
I love love love love it, and it has aged very very well, far better than Attack of the Grey Lantern.
i really want to listen to six now, but it's at home and i'll probably forget by the time i get there :(
Witness To A Murder is always fun when it pops up on shuffle.
With its continuous mix, ho hum...
... as being one of the most preposterous things that happened in the 90s.
after russ abbott of course
Let's be honest.
most of us love 6 because it reminds us of our funny uni years, I think
the record's ok but would have been much better with a proper singer and not with Draper's high pitched campy voice, a la Mr Humphries
It's my favourite album ever. Absolute genius. I've listened to it a thousand times but there are bits - like the dreamy breakdown at the end of 'Cancer' - which still give me goosebumps. Every serious music fan I know loves it too so it's odd that the music press ignore it now as much as they slated it at the time.
And what about the b-sides to the singles? Can't Afford To Die. Check Under The Bed. Railings. I Care. When The Wind Blows. Honestly, these songs were all good enough to be album tracks. Just incredible that they produced so much amazing music in such a short space of time.
Of course, 'Grey Lantern' and the early EPs are superb as well, but very different in sound. Would have to agree that 'Little Kix' isn't a patch on either album, but still has some decent songs at its heart. And the 'Kleptomania' sessions at least show the band were returning to something approaching form when they split.
Will we ever get that Paul Draper solo record?!
were kind to it i think. there was a live review JUST before it came out that went nuts over it. hmm i cant recall what the rest thought/said.
Attack... does sound a little dated
I disagree that Attack sounds dated, still think its an ace record and it reminds me of some really good times from about ten years ago. I like Six, Little Kix and Kleptomania a lot all for different reasons.
I Care and When The Wind Blows especially.
I still think I prefer Grey Lantern though. I discovered Mansun last summer and was totally obsessed with it for a few months.
Whereas Six has sort of seeped in gradually.
and not swordfishtrombones?
that I used to love this album. Like others, it's been many years since I listened to it. Like a fine wine, gets better with age...
to be honest.
For me, Attack Of The Grey Lantern was twice the album Six will ever be (Twelve? ROFL).
Six had some great tunes, sure, at least 5 or 6, but surely buckled under the weight of its (massive) pretensions. Of course if you're creative people things are never going to be perfect, and its good to be ambitious blah blah blah.
But the album/single versions of Being A Girl sum the whole thing up for me. The single version is a fucking great blast of punk-pop (with a seriously odd video featuring a possibly-yet-to-mature-into-a-royal-cunt Danny Dyer; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvzHcWcUkcI )
The album version is just weighed down by that crap at the end.
I thought it was a real disappointment that they went so pseudo-intellectual and operatic. But that's just me. Oh, and that artwork?? Jesus...
is just beautiful... the shimmering noise and feedback... gorgeous. i think the whole album was a little genius. i'm so happy i read this thread and there are others out there who feel the same about SIX. my favourite part. the end of CANCER after the whole "emotionally raped by jesus" part... and the little electronics kick in and the bass. i think that feeling is how heroin must be
his view however seems to sum up most of the music presses' at the time.
i personally think the album is genius and i applaud them for it despite it effectively killing their career. the end of being a girl is superb :)
I Can Only Disappoint you went on to be one of their biggest singles. A combination of a half-wank Little Kix and Chad stealing all the money surely did that. Six only whipped the cult they'd built up into a further frenzy. Thats how I viewed it anyway. Melody Maker were gushing that Little Kix would be the best album ever. And thats why they're no longer aloud to print things.
Kleptomania would've been quite ace.
Chad didn't steal any money, it was Stove who got kicked out of the band for nicking tonnes of money from the band accounts. This all happened before the 4th record sessions, which is why Stove's name isn't listed on any of the new tracks on Kleptomania. Stove is clearly a cock.
Chad on the other hand, is a delightful fellow.
GO MANSUN GO!
I Can Only Disappoint U is great.
Shame the rest of Little Kix was gash.
I must have been emotionally raped by Jesus, but not before commissioning Marillion's designer to do my cover art.
Hey, I don't think its a terrible album like I said, but revisionist classic status for this? Nah...
Anyway, each to his pretentious and ridiculous own!
is Love Remains, i am SO winning at Mansun.
understood the adoration of Six.
Maybe it will come to me when I listen to it in 5 minutes time on my lunch break.
you could actually whistle a Mansun tune
now, try whistling a Fuck Buttons one....
A sea of faces just like me
And life is wearing me thin.... etc
Mansun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything Fuck Buttons could ever waste our time attempting
The suspense is killing me!
if i'm left alooooooooooooooone i'd make them anyway...
it is still lost on me. just sounds like a mess of ideas with no form or substance.
Do not adjust your set mate, you are not alone.
Because of this thread, I decided to fill my Brighton-London coach journey with the dulcet tones of Paul Draper and attempt to listen to Six from beginning to end, to just to check if I was being too harsh in my original comments.
But I wasn't.
Somewhere in there, there is a 4 out of 5 star album dying to get out, but it just tragically lost in a sea of widdling noise, extended outros that simply don't benefit the songs in question (Television could have been decent but is ruined by a truly horrible 5-minute coda), pointless changes in tone and tempo and noticeably crap lyrics - to wit: "The nature of uncarved blocks is how to describe what's hard to describe". Or is that really clever?
Credit where its due though; it is a genuinely bonkers record with some fucking great tunes. And I really like the way that they re-use and subvert a couple of guitar motifs from AOTGL.
Anyway enough from me
Examples please? (regarding the re-use of riffs from Grey Lantern)
Give it a go in another ten years!
final spin from me. Saw them live twice, didn't think much. Grey Lantern was above average - but only for the singles. Didn't bother with Little Kix, purely because of the daft name of the record.
I think Paul Draper was a lyrical baffoon and an average musician - not the genius that some seem to believe. I honestly don't think i'll ever play Mansun again after today.
Fair point there, the title 'Little Kix' is fucking abysmal. What were they thinking? Still has some great tunes though, especially the awesome 'Butterfly (A New Beginning)' - one of my all-time favourite album openers.
and Fool are among my favouritest Mansun songs.
is my most dust-covered cd on the shelf
gotta do something about it
the name 'Little Kix' may be deliberately lame, or chosen by Parlophone, if you look at the sad history of that record (see awisgard's post).
boy, are you in for a surprise. ;)
it has moments of Britpopitude in it! Well I went by the brief description as I had never heard them before in my life :P okie
in the slightest.
was mansun in cardiff soon after six was released
that's a beast of an album.
live it was like the second coming of rock n roll
Someone should do a compilation.
The Britpop Hangover canon includes
GET IN/ Kenickie
IN IT FOR THE MONEY / Supergrass
THIS IS HARDCORE / Pulp
BLUR / Blur
Mostly these records deal with depression, ageing, the false promises of fame, unhappy casual sex and the onset of death.
They were all recorded in the period just after the 18 month/2 year Britpop heyday.
They were all alledgedly recorded under the influence of certain very hard drugs if you read around the subject.
[/Mansun b-side quote-a-rama]
If anyone fancies it.
Nice idea and sound and all, but they simply dont have the songs to back it up. Too long and it goes nowhere.
a bonkers album, it is also inconsistant and i dont think it is in the top 10 ....but it is bonkers and parts of it are fantastic......this makes it better than a predictably consistant very good album in my opinion.
Legacy is beautiful musically and with the idea of the lyrics. Probably my favourate of all their tracks.
Aotgl was more consistantly good.
Which is what makes it such a shame that they split. Took me a while to 'get', but I now think of it as an awe-inspiring album. Not listened to much of Kleptomania - should perhaps check it out again. Anyone remember the tour with King Adora and My Vitriol? :-)
it was going so well until you said "king adorra" what next? menswear and longpigs???
ps. ALL MY FOOD FROM THE BP STORE WHEN THE NIGHT KICKS ..
this is very nearly 15(!) years old.
time... bloody hell.
playing 'Fall Out' as I type this.
I remember pretty much everything Mansun ever did aside from the early EPs and Attack Of The Grey Lantern getting some extremely unjustified harsh press. Also, I'm finding it weird that Parlophone got so heavily involved with Little Kix, especially since they were giving Blur and Radiohead incredible amounts of artistic freedom at the time.
of record company interference actually improving an album?
lacked any singles, and told Damon Albarn to go away and write a couple. He obliged with 'For Tomorrow' and 'Chemical World'...
Rather than his label?
I can't see how they thought they'd possibly get a fruitful long-term relationship with Draper out of the whole thing. Six wasn't as big as Attack of the Grey Lantern but it sold well enough (and by today's standards, two top 10 singles and gold sales is pretty much unthinkable for an indie band).
sort of list.
Right alongside OK Computer, Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space, Mezzanine, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness and The Soft Bulletin.
Or maybe just a top 10 ever list.
Just bought it of Amazon for 1p.
It had better be good or I'll be demanding a refund.
downloading Six now.
this is good, sounds like the mars volta/oceansize obv long before they turned up. Ordered a cd copy for £1.27 too cos the cover looks cool.
it's not as good, but there's a very high TUNE count and it sort of makes you appreciate more what a wacky move Six was...
How has this album not been in my life before.
bizarre vicarious pride, happiness and jealousy right now. To hear Six for the first time again...
it's just utterly barmy, glad I ordered a CD copy though as this rip i've got is flaky as fuck
and I HATED it when I first bought it. Was expecting another Attack of the Grey Lantern at the time but wow, this gets me every time.
and will be digging it out tonight.
bonkers, massive, epic, touching, ambitious, and chock full of just fucking amazing songs.
The ones that Paul Draper sent out - does anyone have these or know somewhere they can be read online?
Only half of them are on Kleptomania
Drop me your address if you'd like them. Paul used to post a lot of that sort of thing on the Mansun Myspace page but it might not be there anymore.
like they did with Lantern and include all the b-sides. Anybody hear what they did with the American release of Six? They butchered it and tried to make it more commerical. I remember owning Six for a while with it's boring American cover when I found the "real" version in a bargain bin in Ohio with it's crazy cover I bought it and was blown away with how different it was. In fact both Lantern and Six were completely different with their American releases. So keep in mind that many here in America could posess the "lesser" versions of these albums.
Got rid of 'Inverse Midas' and 'Witness To A Murder', then re-shuffled the tracklisting.
Seems like his only contribution to mankind in the last decade was the McCartney interview he did for DiS, jeez !!
MESSAGE FROM PAUL DRAPER - 16/11/05
Paul here. I'm contacting everybody on the database to fill you all in on what I've been up to and what's happening in the near future. A really big thank you for your continuing support. I hope it's been worthwhile as there are quite a few releases coming up.
I've been busy in the studio and have 7 finished songs for my next project, and a whole pile of unrecorded songs which are being demo'd as I write this. The songs are for my upcoming solo project and I will keep you all informed of further details as things become more concrete with this over the next few months. Chad has also been down to the studio recently, doing the odd day playing various instruments - even drums!
On top of the solo stuff I am working with the guys from Parlophone on a Mansun 'Best Of...' CD which we are aiming to bring out in the spring. I hope to have some of my liner notes in there as well somewhere! We are also working on a DVD, which will form part of a "Special Edition" version of the album. This will include all the videos and some extra stuff too. We're currently sifting thru acres of tapes that we've accumulated over the years.
In addition to the above projects, you may already know that I've been working with ex-Skunk Anansie vocalist Skin on her forthcoming album 'Fake Chemical State'. The download only single 'Alone In My Room' (my first post-Mansun material) is a collaboration written and produced by myself and Skin and is available to download at iTunes now. The video for the single can also be viewed online through Skin's website.
As I get the impression it was hugely critically acclaimed, massively popular in terms of chart positions etc, seems to have a fairly strong cult following and listening to it it seems to contain the blueprint for a lot of bands (Muse etc) that followed in its wake. Not that I was there at the time or even that I had listened to it before this time last week, but it just seems strange
But it never really received the amount of press inches it deserved, even at the time. Back in 1998, the music press were waiting to see what Blur and Radiohead were going to do next (which would turn out to be '13' and 'Kid A'), The Verve were at the height of their popularity with Urban Hymns, Supergrass were still reasonably big (post-'In It For The Money'), people were waiting for Suede's next record (which would turn out to be the disappointing 'Head Music').
Oh, and sadly, Catatonia and Travis were at some kind of peak of popularity then too.
1998 was also the year the Manics put out the disappointing 'This Is My Truth...', which was very eagerly awaited on the back of 'Everything Must Go', so they were getting a lot of coverage.
were going to continue without Bill Berry, as well as 'Up' being finally released that year, so there was a lot for the music press to chew on. 'Six' just got sadly overlooked.
the concept of a 'there at the time' band. They (and Strangelove) were the cult band that followed on from the Manics, essentially - I know a lot of early Manics fans latched on to Mansun post-Holy Bible/Richie's disappearance because of the whole genderbending punk side to Mansun's early look and most of them stayed with it. I was very much there at the time and they were a band that let you feel a part of something more. As condescending as it sounds, I honestly felt sad for the generation after whose cult band turned out to be the tragically inept and pitiable mess that was the Libertines - a band who left me cold from day one. I think that was something of an epiphany all on it's own; that I had outgrown the need for the band that somehow defined me. But Mansun, Mansun will always be in my heart, even now as I confess, in genuine dismay, still to this day - I never got to see them live.
Not only DID a lot of early Manics fans latch onto Mansun for the reason Yvash stated, but a lot of early Suede fans did too (the ones that were unhappy that the dark atmosphere of 'Dog Man Star' had given way to the light poppiness of 'Coming Up').
Mansun weren't the only cult band at the time, though. Super Furry Animals had a very strong cult following, as did Belle & Sebastian, and Ultrasound were just around the corner.
Everyone who is interested in cult records from the '90s like 'Six' should listen to Ultrasound's 'Everything Picture' in full at least once.
although I think their recent comeback record is actually better. Everything Picture would have been better if it had included Best Wishes, I'll Show You Mine... and had been a single album.
But 'Everything Picture' is a far more interesting and audacious record, I think.
and they are all wonderful. Really wish that I could have seen this band play live.
Thanks for listening.
I recently found a huge poster of the cover from this amazing album that I'm getting rid of. Seems a shame to chuck it so thought I'd see if anyone would like it?
It's 1.5m x 1m in size, and is a promo for the album so must be at least 15 years old. It's got various creases, but no tears whatsoever.
Free to a good home, but you must be able to collect from the Southampton area. Sorry but I won't post.
Reply if interested. I can post a pic if any interest develops.
Incredible live (saw them probably 5-6 times over the years), brilliantly ambitious records (the first two), wonderful b-sides (each single was released on 2 CDs & vinyl with different b-sides on each format), great artwork and packaging, good videos, strong image. And the bassist's phone number was on the single sleeves, so you could ring them up and chat, even when they were number one and all that. If they weren't there you could leave a message and they'd call you back, usually at 4am so your parents got cross. Perfect.
those were the days eh
but I can't tell how much is about the music itself and how much is nostalgia. Six is bloody amazing though, and AOTGL has a bunch of brilliant songs on it (I still love the silly hidden track, "an open letter to the lyrical trainspotter). I even really liked some of the stuff on Little Kix.
They were also a really great b-sides band (will we ever see another?): Take It Easy Chicken, Everyone Must Win, Closed For Business... these are songs everyone should hear.
I saw them live three times: twice in Sheffield and once down in Bury St Edmonds. They were amazing twice and crap the last time I saw them (in the dying days, their last tour I think, at Sheffield Leadmill). Their gig at Sheffield Fuzz Club in 2001, I think it was - that was phenomenal.
i heard stove stole all the bands money and f'cked off
so no possible reunion?
ps cancer... all of it. esp the end part. after the piano interlude and epic guitar solo.... WOW
IM EMOTIONALLY RAPED BY JESUS!!!!
apparently stove had big gambling problems and spent loads of their money without them realising, leaving them broke, and it sounds like they just got disheartened and thought that the stuff that made up kleptomania wasn't good enough to release and just threw in the towel
quite strange they didn't like kleptomania ... but had no issues with releasing little kix. strange.
ps. a reunion is still on the cards then! i propose ATP presents MANSUN DONT LOOK BACK ... SIX!
chad still around? that drummer was great too! saw them supporting manics years ago and they killed it.
Probably it would be Don't Look Back 27 or something.
the album SIX, by mansun (its in the title of this thread)
incredible album. one of the foundations that DiS was built upon.
reform and play the album at festival no.6?
starts at 38 mins