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SUCK. as do bands who can't be bothered to use local promoters and go with these guys instead.
that is all.
i hate it when band don't use us anymore and use the 'bigger' promoters, who actually do very little promoting, pay the bands less and make an absolute fortune by relying on the headline band's status to draw in the crowds. grr...
crap all round. the band get paid less, the venues used are shitter, the crowds are smaller, and local bands aren't added to the bill. new bands should be supporting local promoters and bands, not going with big faceless groups like sjm who help organise v.
musicians were artists not slick businessmen.
try reading my post. the bands lose out, they get paid less, and play to worse venues and crowds, with worse or no support bands.
i would imagine for a lot who have their eyes set on bigger venues it makes sense to make 'friends' with someone like SJM early on.
would suggest he deals with bands that dont just have their eyes set on the bigger venues?
i just find it depressing. especially as all the new breed of good young 'folky' bands use them, like johny flyn, noah and the whale, los campesinos, lightspeed champion, laura marling etc etc...these bands should be supporting the independent music scene, not entrusting themselves to these bigwigs.
all the examples you've given there are people who do music full time whilst not exactly being mass market artists. it kinda sucks as an independent promoter, but thems the breaks. i don't massively blame them.
bands are musicians, not businessmen. but as full time musicians, who I doubt get much of an income, surely attempting to use promoters who are very good at what they do & will pay musicians more is better than using faceless businesses who will just make a quick buck?
the reason this happens is down to one thing - agents. grrr...
if a band will earn more with a local promoter over a company at pub level, i do know that local promoter can't usually put bands on in mid-sized venues. as i said up there, sometimes it pays to make friends early on - even if it affects you in a negative sense to start with.
also: " faceless businesses who will just make a quick buck"? plus ten indie points!
my arguement is this:
if a band is big enough to play a mid sized venue, then they must have sold out shows at smaller venues, therefore making them big enough to jusify the bigger venue.
therefore the bigger companies like SJM will book them as they are a low risk given that they know the band will at least half fill the venue.
I don't have an issue with this as like you say, small indie promoters can't get access to these venues.
However, wouldn't it be better to use the smaller promoters who will pay more and bring more people along at the small shows (as big promoters just see the small shows as petty cash earners), then move on to the bigger fish when the time is right?
if small indie promoters are supported early on, they could afford to do the mid sized venues. i know plenty of promoters who have done mid sized venues, i dunno why you think it's beyond them.
more to the point, these bands aren't exactly playing stadia. i refuse to believe a local promoter would be so incompetant as to not be able to put on los campesinos or whatever. in fact the opposite would be the case.
plus, many of these artists are hardly living below the poverty line. we're not talking moondog here.
SJM have an massive appeal to new bands, so I can understand why artists want to play for them, but if you're in a band and want to gain a fan base in that area, your often best sticking with local promoters, SJM are more like for your Oasis, not your "the local lad ban'.
if the band has used small promoters in the past and have been looked after well, played to a sizeable & receptive crowd, paid a decent amount so they can continue doing what they do.
that if you're trying to book a tour, it's a lot easier to deal with one promoter than twenty.
you don't pay an agent to do easy stuff, you pay them to get the most money for you. if you book it all through one promoter, I imagine they get quite a discount...
i stand corrected.
they might suck if you're a promoter, but they certainly don't if you're an agent, a manager or in a band that wants to continue on a curve of success, play larger venues, play for more money and book a high-profile tour.
The same goes for Live Nation.
i remember when you used to be cool.
I love you.
But sadly, I have to do the best my bands. Thankfully, they all have a lot of time for independent promoters, but playing for some independent promoter off myspace doesn't help you get on big festival bills like playing for the big boys does.
I also don't feel that anyone 'owes' independent promoters like so many people believe they do.
Mr Roberts and you know it.
I'm not going to go into too much detail here as there are a few sensitive issues at this moment in time concerning Nottingham Drowned In Sound, certain agents and other promoters (again) but your statement that denying an up-and-coming band the opportunity to play a sell out club night on a prime weekend night to 150 or so people who will all probably buy some kind of product as opposed to playing on a low-key Wednesday night with little to no promotion or support is ludicrous in the extreme.
dom, you always seem to be fighting against agents / other promoters - where's the love?!
i don't really get too pissed off, with one exception, where a band who we have put on twice in the two years previously when they were unknown jumped ship to the 'big' promoter, only to play the same venue as we book. it wasn't their fault, and they did apologise, but the manager and agent did nothing when we pulled them up on it (despite us saying we would easily offer them more money and treat them better - this big promoter is frankly a cunt).
we went to the gig anyway, and surprise surprise, there was a good 30-40 people there than when we had put them on, despite them getting a lot more attention prior to that gig. the annoying thing is, despite this, I know we will never get offered them again, which is sad, coz we love them....
what about all the independent promoters who don't know what the fuck they are doing?
How about all the independent promoters who put on nights without promoting?
There are far too many small promoters giving others a bad name. I'm more than happy to support small promoters if they've done well in the past and/or I trust them, but with SJM, Live Nation, EYOE etc. I know what I'm getting and what my bands will get.
It's not crap at all.
i'm not talking about the shit ones, i'm talking about the ones that your band have played for before & have done you well.
however, when a band moves up to an agent a lot of the time these good promoters get ignored. surely the band would say in this town use this promoter until we can justify playing a bigger venue. unless this happens, all the good grass roots promoters will not reap the benefits of searching out smaller bands, as any that do get big go straight to the bigger promoters.
its so fucking frustrating being a genuine promoter who at best breaks even, to see the one band who have got a bit off press play the same venue that you have booked them to play the previous x times they have played the town for another promoter. One who does fuck all for the local scene and nothing for the band previously to then make an absolute mint off the show because they rely on the NME or whatever going crazy about the band, so the promoter does little local promotion, gets no local support, pays the band less on the promise of a bigger venue next time (which would happen anyway).
the money that is diverted away from the decent small promoters stops them from doing more shows & therefore investing in new music.
sorry, a bit of a rant. damn duvel...
will be why so many small promoters become booking agents or managers then.
bands who are quite big wanting some slick profesional company to organise a slick tour, but the bands i mentioned are still at the beginning of long, successful careers, and deservedly so cos they're all ace; it's seems strange that groups who've barely even released a record feel the need to go though some big company. but there must be ways of getting around the difficulty of booking a long tour. tour manager/booking agent? doing a bit of research at places like here: http://www.planbmag.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4958?
Bands from the south generally miss out Newcastle altogether due to this it seems.
They dont know anything about Newcastle, so i get where myfirstmine is coming from. But i think it is important to use independent proters at this level...
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