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I'm not sure what it says that BBC Online consider this nearly as big a story as the Lib Dem leadership contest results.
I'm PC gone mad.
What the fuck difference doe it make?
How many complaints do they get?
But now? Now, suddenly, it's offensive. ALL OF A SUDDEN.
That's some up-to-date shizzle right there.
the BBC is in a self-flagellating mood after nearly collapsing from within over the editing of a trailer only shown to the press.
Stuff that was banned in the early 80s is now ok (I'm thinking Frankie Goes To Hollywood's Relax) and FTONY from the same time now has to be censored.
So apparently it's now ok to sing about homosexuality but not to use a word that's somehow suddenly become offensive to 'some people'.
but given Kirsty MacColl's character knows full well that the guy's heterosexual since they're a couple it can hardly be seen as homophobia.
Plus editing the "slut hooked on junk" annoys me even more. It's integral to the song goddamnit.
Faggot had a whole different conotation in 1982. It's an irrelevance.
reference to the tasty herby meat balls.
Mmm faggots for lunch I say!
either remove the whole song, or ideally, leave it as it is, or ideally, remove Radio 1 from the airwaves.
half of the records played on radio 1. If it needs to be edited, just don't play it. Simple.
If people found them that offensive they surely wouldn't be buying them.
turn off the TV/radio if something comes on that you don't like.
That's not something many people would say when insulting each other is it? Faggot on the otherhand is an entirely likely insult within the context, even if it might be unpalatable. The song doesn't glamourise the word or anything.
What is the difference between you typing them on an internet messageboard and someone playing a song on a radio. The word still gets transmitted to the world either way.
So how is it acceptable to you to use the words in your post just now?
and so don't know in what sense they would be using it.
that the word Nigger has always been an offensive word. Faggot on the other hand has only recently been adopted in America as a derogatory word meaning homosexual. To most people in this country it's still a farely tame insult, like bugger or arsehole. Unless you listen to Radio 1 apparently - then you might take offence.
but the racist terms you are using are in a different league to the word faggot (obviously, in my opinion - I'm not speaking for most gay men, or most anyone else for that matter). Sure, meanings change over the years and things that were once inoffensive might now upset a few people, but where do you draw the line? In another 20 years everything will be banned.
I doubt the majority of people even gave this a second thought until radio 1 mentioned it, now they're all up in arms. Just like when Relax was banned, but this is now (and was then to be honest) not offensive to anyone except some over-sensitive types.
I wonder if this is actually like how when the Iraq war started Radio 1 told the press they'd be taking Hot Hot Heat's Bandages off the playlist in case it caused offence, which all the tabloids ran with, and then didn't.
It takes out all the bad language and predictably utterly loses its edge.
But still it seems to have taken the place of the Pogues' version of some of these fucking Xmas compilations.
because of Ronan Keaton singing it and not the changed lyrics.
and the far blander arrangement. But the lyrics were part of the problem.
It's utterly ridiculous.
The colloqualisms with the Pogues are essential to the whole meaning and spirit of the song s. I really want to cover Boys from the County Hell although I'm sure people'd object to the line "my brother earned his medals raping gooks in Vietnam"...
the characters are trading insults in the way they would speak. it's not directed at anyone
^which is exactly what Kirsty Maccoll's mum says.
Incidentally, Shane MacGowan, one massively underrated lyricist? He is a genius!
I have always thought he was criminally underrated as a lyricist. Just listen to 'a pair of brown eyes'
with traditional Irish culture. soooo fucking awesome.
'cos it woulnd't be in anyway realisitc for those characters to use those words so it would have been utterly pointless.
On the other hand, as I mention elsewhere, I think the line in Boys from the County Hell "my brother earned his medals raping gooks in Vietnam" is absolutley fine within its own context.
Which by all rights he probably should be
he looks as bad as dead there.
And then do the same to all Christmas songs that aren't Fountains of Wayne's "I want an alien for Christmas". Thanks.
about 500 times every sodding christmas.
*crosses sadpunk's name off "people to send novelty Christmas cards that play the Pogues, Santa Baby AND Christmas Wrapping" list.*
The original line was "Good King Wenceslas, looked out for small kiddies to fiddle with on the Feast of Stephen".
"Away in a manager, no kid for my bed" got edited pretty fucking sharpish too.
Also, why don't they show photos of Shane MacGowan to disuade youngsters from binge drinking?
in their "don't pull faces as it'll stay like that if the wind changes direction" campaign.
ludricuous. If they ban that word from the song, surely the word arse should be axed as well..?! They [the powers that be] have gone way OTT!!
Is that the BBC finds it offensive to hear the word 'faggot' in the song, but doesn't find it offensive to read the word 'faggot' in the news story about how offensive the word 'faggot' is.
That's what happens in an organisation run by a bunch of faggots. Oops, sorry, I mean cunts.
in a local venue, and he was hillarious.
First of all, they had to drill the bottom of the mic stand to the stage floor because he kept falling over.
Then he went into this massive rant about a fort/castle he visited in the south of Ireland.
He went off stage for about 20 minutes, and came back on with a questionable stain at the front of his trousers, and started talking about the castle again.
He then got told to wrap it up, and he left....
It's surely more offensive.
due to the technological limitations of the medium?
is banning bits of it on Radio 1 and playing it unexpurgated on Radio 2. Presumably at the same time.
The BBC have just made themselves look like complete twats over this.
Simple! Unless the Angling society kick off...
There's not even a suggestion that complaints have been recieved. It just seems to be a precautionary measure. Absolutely ridiculous.
Always got a bee in there little pink bonnets about somethings.
god love em!
*Sweeping generalisation alert*:
These decisions tend to be made by well-intentioned right-on types who fear causing the potential to cause an offence but without any evidence anybody would be offended by it.
and consulted on this decision.
All decisions should be made on an individaul basis depending on the perception of the writer's intention, context of use in the song and spirit in which the word is used, rather than simply saying "can't use this word, can't use that word" on a generalised basis.
In this context the song is clearly written as an argument between two Irish down-and-outs in New York who most likely would use that kind of language. To pretend they wouldn't or edit it is to try and pretend parts of the world don't exist which is silly. I think art should reflect the world as it is, not how we might like it to be.
If I thought the song encouraged or glamourised homophobia, or encouraged people to call other people "faggots" or "sluts hooked on drunk" I'd take an entirely different view.
But, much as I usually dislike the word "faggot", I think in this particular song its used in an appropriate way and should not be banned.
they'll stand by the ban. Even though an overwhelming majority agree that it's a moronic idea, they'll still enforce it, what utter pricks.
That'd be relevant too.
I guess the thing to me is that it's like reading books from the early 20th century or before, which will often contain rather unpleasant assumptions of black people.
But to edit them is to pretend these feelings didn't exist and I generally denying the existence of such things a far worse and more damaging issue as it distorts perceptions of reality and pretends problems don't exist.
released Long Summer Day with lyrics like 'Summer day makes a nigger feel crazy' there was a shit storm in certain areas of the internet as two whether two white guys should sing lines like that. Nevermind that it's a protest/story song set in the deep south.
Context is everything, even in songs, otherwise we'd be banning any film/tv program that has any sort of 'offensive' words in it.
I've never really understood this song. It doesn't bother me, but it isn't very christmassy. I like elves, santa, little rolled up bits of bacon and those teeny sausages.
That toothless gurning drunk and his shitty song doesn't really come into it for me
because Dean in southampton doesn't find it offensive. And he's a bummer
This 'story' comes up every year, and it doesn't stop this song being tripe. I have no doubt however, that the usual suspects will be wasting their time on this thread arguing about 'context' and political correctness at the Beeb as if any of it actually matters...
I called my dad a faggot and he went crazy. I thought I was making a reference to Mr Brain's finest.
As times change, so do reactions. Just because it was released in the 80s doesn't make it ok.
It was alright to say 'paki' in the 70s but so what?
Plus, even if it is 'how they spoke', I'm sure lots of southern US states would speak about black people in a derogatory way. Its still extremely offensive.
the song is "in character".
i realize eminem has taken several large shits over that defence in recent years but nevertheless
And anyone else who gives good causes a bad name by having no sense of humour about anything at all. If there's one thing worse than a right-wing reactionary, it's a liberal knee-jerk arsehole with a phD in smug superiority from the University of Having Never Even Seen Postcards Of The Real World. Especially ones who whore around their mind-meltingly predictable, Krusty The Klown-style "I heartily damn this word or action" platitudes as if theirs is the absolute right-on word of whichever deity you choose to believe in (unless you don't believe in anything at all - and, hey, that's fine too!).
Radio One can do whatever they want - being posessed of a modicum of taste and a whole barrelful of hatred for pretty much every DJ on the station, I don't listen to it. 6music's where it's at (apart from Mr Lamb, obviously, who is an affront to humanity). So, basically, arsed. It's still the greatest Christmas song by an Old Country mile, I've never found it offensive before (it's not like I've never been punched for looking like a "faggot") and I still don't now.
The correct title is "Rent-A-Quote". (See Shami Chakrabati or whatever her name is...)
but the way he says it almost makes me not want to.
See also: Anti Nazi League, Unite Against Fascism, Damon Albarn.
Shami Chakrabati, though. She's ace.
I'm sort of ambivilent, actually- I just think its an appalling excuse for a song, about as Christmassy as a deck chair, and the whole lyric is pretty offensive, so I'm surprised they've pinpointed the word 'faggot'
To be honest, whoever is responsible for making that a 'christmas song' should surrender their eyelids to me immediately so I can flush them down the toilet.
D'ya think its cos everyone likes to embrace their inner irishness?
at its cutting edge best. why are they even playing this? Leave it to radio 2.
Someone's pointed out elsewhere that what this story has actually done is not only given the word 'faggot' its most populous airing in years but alerted everyone who didn't know, given it's quite an old term by now, that they have a new term for the gays.
I don't think words like faggot should be on mainstream radio any more than any other swear word.
looks a little bit like an old Avril Lavigne there.
Do they call it 'Fairy Tale of New York'. Don't they know that 'fairy' is a derogatory term for, you know, them sort.
I'm writing to Terry Wogan.
If a character in a BBC tv show calls someone a "faggot" is that going to be banned too? Because this is exactly the same thing except in song form.
So no exploration of people's prejudices in television fiction from now on then? All will be sweetness and light in BBC land.
the censorship has been lifted!
censorship is lifted, everyone gets publicity, song rises a few positions in the charts, world continues to revolve as normal.
doesn't Moyles use the term gay is a very off-hand derogatory sense quite a lot (I never listen to his show thankfully)? That is MUCH more offensive to me and my sexuality than one very strongly contextualised use of the word by a drunken character in a bitter, sarcastic Christmas tune. What are Tatchell and the messrs of Outrage doing about the widespread use of the word as a general derogatory catch-all?
IMO I find it more offensive that Tatchell & co pick on a very soft target such as this, that in the long run will do very little for the integration of gays into mainstream society, or the reputation of organisations dedicated to advancing personal liberty.
it may well be fine in the context, but it -is- an offensive term (believe me, if you were one of those bummer types you'd damn well know it), and the BBC chooses to censor other offensive terms (be they racist or just plain old swear words) from songs played at the same time of day on the same station, regardless of context - so if that's their policy, "faggot" should be edited along with the rest of them. by choosing to leave "faggot" intact at 3pm, they're pretty much saying that one of the strongest homophobic insults you can get is still less offensive than something as harmless as "shit".
i don't have a problem with "faggot" being in the song, just like i don't have a problem with any other word being in a song, as long as it's justified by the context (and even if i didn't feel the context justified it i still wouldn't try and get it censored, i just wouldn't like it) - i just have a problem with it apparently being considered more acceptable than other offensive words (ie the ones that don't refer to poofs) in BBC policy.
(and for the people posting above who have missed the point entirely, the BBC never tried to ban the word "faggot" from their stations, only to remove its usage in daytime broadcasts - people are still free to use any damn word they want to after the watershed)
the song also contains the words "slut" and "arse", which aren't very nice either. I think most people get that the song really is very much sung by characters, in context, and that there's no offence intended towards anyone.
Anyway, I'm off to send requests to Radio One DJs to play 'Money For Nothing' by Dire Straits. It's got the "f" word in it TWICE! And that's DOUBLE acceptable!
is that if the song was absolutely brand new, and had never been heard before, then the language in it would have precluded it from being played on daytime radio.
As it is, it is a family favourite and I think that the majority of listeners take it in the spirit of fun with which it was recorded.
How did the Mail actually know about this? I can't imagine it's been played on daytime quite yet.