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What is this? Luddite Troll Month?
What the fuck is with this board and all these "ooh, MP3/iPod is really shit because..." and then citing a reason so personal and so insane that one can only stare at your screen in disbelief.
Reasons such as:
- too much choice
- my business is going to go under thanks to you kids and your meddaling MP3 players
- sound quality is shit
- cassettes sound better
- carrying around a discman and a stack of CDs is better
- you can skip album tracks
- the playlist option is there and so it means I can avoid listening to albums all the way through
You'd be hard-pressed to find a more ridiculously contrived list of non-issues/problems outside of right-wing UK party's maifesto.
The only genuinely decent argument I've seen for a discman is the ability to play an album straight from the shops...
Jeez...
Reasons such as:
- too much choice
- my business is going to go under thanks to you kids and your meddaling MP3 players
- sound quality is shit
- cassettes sound better
- carrying around a discman and a stack of CDs is better
- you can skip album tracks
- the playlist option is there and so it means I can avoid listening to albums all the way through
You'd be hard-pressed to find a more ridiculously contrived list of non-issues/problems outside of right-wing UK party's maifesto.
The only genuinely decent argument I've seen for a discman is the ability to play an album straight from the shops...
Jeez...
Re: What is this? Luddite Troll Month?
sound quality is shit
I would argue that is an entirely valid point for not buying one.
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MP3s will only sound shit if you encode them badly or you are MP3ing a bad source. Otherwise it's sophistry to use it as an argument against getting a player.
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Guntrip, if you are going to make a fucking comment like that, at least fucking know what you are talking about!!! Where did you here that? From your spotty friends down at the youth club? or are you just making this shit up yourself! You are talking out your arse!
AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!
This is the FOURTH time in 3 days that someone has come on here and said...
sound quality IS shit (or some similar)
This is crap. If you rip a CD at a high VBR, or even at 320kbps, then the quality is exactly the same as CD. This is digital data for godsake! The only thing that will affect sound quality then, is the hardware, exactly the same as CD.
Crap CD player = Crap Sound
Good CD Player = Good Sound
Crap MP3 player = Crap Sound
Good MP3 player = Good Sound
Please, i know what i am talking about... i do this as part of my job!
In future, at least look into something before making a stupid uneducated statement like that!
*sorry Kleeb, could help myself ;-)
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So, as far as I'm concerned, why bother with the expensive when I can continue to use my works-fine CD discman and buy a big, fat pile of CDs with the money I've saved?
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"and they -still- don't sound the way CDs sound."
Eh? Surely this depends on the MP3 Player and CD Player? Not MP3's on a whole?
Are you some kind of idiot or something?
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Are you some kind of idiot or something?
Oh, getting offensive. How mature. God forbid someone should have a differing opinion, eh?
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Most data has some redundancy that can be eliminated without any information loss. Google on Huffman encoding.
mp3 is a lossy format although I'm surprised you can hear the difference at 320kbps, infact I'm gonna call bullshit on that.
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Obviously I've heard of lossless compression. MP3s are not. Can you point me towards a portable music player that have sufficient storage space to hold my music collection in FLAC or er.. whatever the other ones are [no internet connection at home for a year has destroyed my knowledge of these things!]?
No?
Ah well, I'll leave it a few years, then.
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I suggest that if you can hear a difference it's more likely down to a poor encoder or a poor source for the encoding. Also have you ever done a blind listening test? because if you already know which one is which psychological factors probably have a lot more effect on your perception than the tiny amount of data loss.
Even if you can hear the difference, does it actually sound worse, or just different? (again you'd need to do a blind listening test to eliminate your existing prejudices from the listening)
And what makes you think the difference between mp3 and CD is at all significant compared to the difference between CD and original sound source? CD quality (44kHz at 16bit) is hardly the best audio encoding known to man but I don't hear you complaining that 24-bit audio sounds better. It's all about acceptable compromise in the end.
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As for appearing childish. That's not unlike the picture in your user profile, eh?
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I know an awful lot about MP3’s and Bit-rates etc. And in the last week we’ve had 4 different threads all saying how the sound quality of MP3’s is vastly inferior to CD. This is simply untrue (but please I do not want to get into that again). I guess I was just getting sick of having to repeat myself over and over again and lost my rag. Sorry if I have offended anyone. I just wish people would do a search on Google or something before making a statement like that.
And I only hurled an insult after a number of posts! It wasn’t as if I just blurted out ‘fuckwit’ or ‘twat’ at the first sign of disagreement! I’ve been debating this topic for a week… I’m just tired and sick of it now.
Sorry for calling you an idiot Guntrip, my nerves were shattered (bad day at work and all that shit)
No hard feelings?
;-)
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*Sigh, i'm bored of listening to idiots*
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Some of those arguments would be against any form of personal music player so I'll lay those aside because I am clearly talking about people attacking MP3 players as oppose to other ways to listen to music on the go.
However, you COULD argue that people are simply against how popular these players are. That would be a pointless argument to have, as I think is plain.
However:
(a) I would never sell my CDs. I buy them for a reason. The MP3 player is simply a method of listening to music. I didn't sell all my CDs when I got a walkman, nor when I got a portable MD player. However, someone who did would be big cock if they didn't have several backups.
(b) COST: The Creative Zen is cheaper than an MD portable and has massive storage. Yes iPods are pricy but iPod is just coming up a lot - my comment was meant to apply to this whole idea that iPod == all other MP3 players mentality. Apologies if that wasn't clear.
(c) BATTERY LIFE: iPod battery life may be shit. My iRiver is streaks ahead of my old MD and that was good. I've yet to be left 'dead' using it and the majority of players have an overall batter life as long as their general use.
(d) Fair point about U2 but then this isn't an exclusively 'Apple' argument. They are indeed trying to become a big fat coporate Satan. :-D
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This whole anti-mp3 player thing smacks of inverted snobbery and jealousy.
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Actually this is the first time I've posted here in ages, normally it's so boring with people banging on about how much they hate the NME and Bolloc Party and YAAAWWN other stuff about music.
Who cares, the internet was made for spurious ranting of this nature. So leave off. Right?
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Oh, how I yearn for the good old days of carry pockets full of CD's and MD's around... the lovely skip of the CD player on the bus... that fun "changing the disc while walking" moment... the way MD's used to corrupt and glitch if you re-recorded them... the way a CD will drop out of it's case in your bag and get scratched by your keys...
Yeah, iPods sure are rubbish. I mean, everything I own, in one tiny box, sound quality at CD standard, lightning fast data transfer. What was I thinking?
I might throw it away and buy a ghetto blaster.
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Please, i know what i am talking about... i do this as part of my job!
That's what Adolf Eichmann said as well.
Anyone who doesn't need access to 6000+ songs while standing in the queue for a sausage roll is a complete loser.
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I can't express how much bullshit I think this is.
JUST a soundtrack to your daily existence?
JUST?
You are not a music lover Traynor, you are an academic.
UNCLENCH! For fucksake.
Re: What is this? Luddite Troll Month?
As discussed here and on numerous other threads, apparently the way to make MP3s CD quality is to encode them all at 320kbps. Obviously, this has the effect of making them quite large files.
The largest MP3 player available now is, what, a 50gb model, right?
Using a mixture of older stuff encoded at 192kbps straight, and new stuff which I've done at 192>320 kbps VBR, I already have close to 50gb of MP3s, and that's without MP3ing most of what I've bought in the last few months.
So, technically, my portable CD player actually gives me more choice.
I WIN ;)
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I've read through all the new threads on the last 20mins and agree/disagree with a number. But i am sick of it now... i've had this for 3 to 4 days! I'm beating my head against a wall!
I like my Ipod, anyone who doesn't, well... we'll see what you will be using 10yrs from now!
I will be posting no more on MP3/IPOD threads!
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a) you were the one who first started flinging childish insults about
b) you ignored the, fairly valid, question I asked you - how can you compress something without losing any data?
I like my Ipod, anyone who doesn't, well... we'll see what you will be using 10yrs from now!
When the technology meets the needs I have, I no doubt will use one.
Currently, it does not. So I don't intend to.
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Consider a page full of a hundred thousand zeros. I can and just have compressed that from 100k to a short sentence (around 100bytes?) and you can recover the original from the compressed version in full without any data loss.
Trivial example but it can be done for music too, google FLAC
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just as u can change which CDs to carry with u when you're out and about, u can add/delete mp3s from your ipod/mp3 player as and when u like.
so ur arguement is crap on that point.
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1) it pisses on the repeated arguements bandied about about "having your entire collection in one place"
2) it requires me to have EVEN MORE expensive computer equipment to store all the MP3s I can't store on my far-too-small MP3 player rather than, y'know, some shelves.
3) are you telling me it's less effort to delete / copy stuff than it is to pull a few CDs off a shelf at 7:10am in the morning as I'm [late again] on my way out for work? ;)
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1) is a valid argument for many. Personally I don't feel the need to have my collection at 320bps - 128 does it for me and 192 does it for most others. 256 is probably good enough almost everyone and VBR allows for them to be much smaller when they are simple and easily compressed.
2) You don't need very expensive computer equipment, but yet again, if it's impractical for you personally then that's fair enough. It doesn't mean the iPod/iRiver/Zen is shit. I wouldn't start a thread claiming "Cars are all shit because it's really expensive for me to drive to and from work" - it would be utterly ridiculous.
3) No, you're right there. Some days you might have to just accept the CDs you have on the player.
Let's just point out, however, the largest player is 60GB and my mate has (at 192+ bit rates) his entire CD collection on computer, it's not a small one. This fits into 60GB so he's waiting for 80GB so he never needs to change. That chances of you genuinely having more than about 60GB of music you would ever WANT to listen to on the go is minimal, I assure you. If you're in that magic 0.01% that do have more than that, you are unusual and yet again, this isn't an argument that said item is shit - only that it doesn't suit you.
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Is it 60? Fair enough, I was wrong on that.
this isn't an argument that said item is shit - only that it doesn't suit you.
I don't remember ever saying said item was shit. I only argued that the shit quality of MP3s made, as you said, said item impracticle for me.
But, gosh damn, I dare to have a differing opinion and I'm told that I'm a luddite / troll / idiot / whatever. Lovely.
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The point was that people were citing MP3 as being shit because of things.
My response to your points was in light of that - i.e. that people seemed to be taking ludicrously individual points about MP3s and the portable players and extrapolating that to 'the whole thing is shit'.
That said your agrument at this point seemed to be that you had 50GB of MP3s at a very high bit rate, yet because your MP3 player could hold all of them it was by definition a redundant item.
I would say that for portable use high bitrates aren't very useful - apart from the consideration of how good your headphones are, the background noise and nature or portable listening mean you cannot hear as well as at home. Still I'm impressed you have so many MP3s as to use 50GB and still not have all your current stuff. Do you really NEED all of that in one player?
You would admit, presumably, that for a lot of people 60GB is easily their entire collection? And that for all practical purposes you could have enough music stored in one 40 or 60GB player to never really worry too much about running out of space, while at the same time have a large amount of options when on the go?
Re: What is this? Luddite Troll Month?
That should have read:
That said your agrument at this point seemed to be that you had 50GB of MP3s at a very high bit rate, yet because your hypothetical MP3 player couldn't hold all of them it was by definition a redundant item.
Sorry.
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quite, i just do everything in the bog standard 128 because i challenge anyone to go on the central line or walk around outside on busy London streets and hear the difference between 128 and 320.
Mind you i challenge anyone to go on the central line and hear any of their music without getting off with their ears ringing, you have to turn it up so loud to hear it at all when the bloody train's moving, and get rsi from having to change the volume every time you pull in or out of a station lest you deafen yourself and everyone else on the train.
I really hate not being able to put anyof my vinyl on my mp3 player though like i could on my md.
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If you have a wave thing but it can't save as MP3 go to Download.com and search for DMC (dB Power Amp) and that will convert for you for free.
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With the md i could plug it straight into the headphone bit of my stereo and tape ahead.
Are there any mp3 players that have the ability to encode straight from an audio signal?
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I just use Cool Edit Pro as I have more control in that.
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thanks!
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If you're the latter you'd probably buy a separate D-A-C stage to convert the digital optical output to analogue output more precisely.
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Actually I think the point of optical cables is more that it lets you make perfect digital copies between different digital media (minidisk, cd, DAT, ipod etc)
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Wikipedia has more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
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And
Your all gay
Are good examples of this.
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(^^ top trolling!)
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You're all Gay!
*or were you writing that in the style of a troll ;-)
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your all gay
There not very good at spelling things write!!!1111!! lol
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Re: What is this? Luddite Troll Month?
Ur'e a11 GAY!!!!1!11!!!
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haha
ace.
I mean,
Aece!!!!11111oneoneoneoneoneoneoenoenhyphenone!!!111
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