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good lad really.
but yeah, death is :(
Possibly my least favourite person in the world.
Unless this is one of those 'joke' death announcements again. In which case i look a bit stupid.
just talking to you.
That's okay then, although I admit the comment was a tad unnecessary.
sad little cock. Wilson did more with his shite than your whole life.
and you call me a cock? That's... nice.
can that be when Doherty is on this planet
Nonetheless, "least favourite person in the world" was probably a bit of an overstatement, but in terms of people whose almost sole purpose was to offer insight into the world of music, there isn't/wasn't anyone I'd want to hear from less.
Wasn't expecting this, even though he's been ill for some time.
think i might watch 24 hour party people tonight.
i cant find anything about it
this is sad. I don't really get the hate for him.
I might watch 24 Hour Party People aswell
but have always had a bit of a soft spot myself
but I think he is a lovable English eccentric.
fun Wilson fact:
one of his favourite pastimes was watching channel U, though i did read that a while ago (i.e. before they sold out)
anyone as outspokenly passionate as he was about music is bound to get his critics. He certainly stuck by what he believed in straight from the off which after this week's McGee/MBV comments feels like something quite rare nowadays. i didn't always agree with him, like the thing about Shaun Ryder being the greatest poet since Keats or something, i don't even think he's anywhere as near as good as Pam Ayres, but i admire someone with the nerve to say that sort of thing and stand by it.
Plus it's admirable that despite helping create the biggest selling 12" single of all time, the most legendary British club, rave AND In The City, he still kept his job at Granada.
is what pissed me off about him so much. To me, it was just completely unjustified cocksureness.
believing in what he was doing and not selling out?
i don't quite understand your reasoning. If you're in the music industry and you're starting a record label it certainly helps if you're signing someone you believe in. Why do you begrudge him that? Because he had different taste to you?
which is all that I'm familiar with first-hand, but yes, it's partly because his taste was different to mine (or rather absolutely awful). It was the way he'd go on the radio and speak with such authority about "the next big thing", when it was patently clear that none of the bands he was promoting had a hope in hell of making it.
i'm not really getting a very good grasp of this. You're reasons for hating him as far as i can tell are
1) he was passionate about things bands he liked
2) he wasn't particularly good at predicting the future (only in his later career though)
3) he didn't like the same bands as you
i mean fair enough, if you don't like someone that's up to you. But it just seems like rather petty reasons to shoot them down mere hours after they've died from cancer.
but we're discussing why people disliked him and I'm trying to explain it, at least from my point of view.
You keep mentioning his passion, but to me, that simply manifested itself as arrogance, and the reason "he wasn't particularly good at predicting the future" was that he lost all grasp of what was good and what was bad music, yet he continued to strive for relevance, and indeed believed that he was so. Obviously I can't say for certain that any of what I'm saying is true, but it was the impression I got from him and the reason I didn't like him.
you can't really say that good/bad music relates in any way to what id going to become popular.
but the stuff he was championing/signing (I think he set up a small record company at the beginning of this decade...?) was just bloody terrible. In fact, in a way, I'd say he *did* sell out. He was trying to second guess people and failing miserably. It was like me trying to play the stock market.
i still don't see that as much of a reason to hate someone. Let alone claim to hate them more than everyone else in the entire world. But we'll just have to agree to disagree, or some bollocks like that.
that The Young Offenders were going to be the next best thing? i quite liked that song. Bit's of it anyway.)
your reasoning applies to anybody that has worked in the music industry and has lived past their 40th year. They will nearly all try and stay relevant, most fail, a few will succeed (a very very few and these are lauded as such), so your hatred just seems idiotic and reactionary. And again, if we're going on the strengths of an artist/label/promoter past their peak/time of relevance, then any attack can be made, though its nearly always utterly pointless.
No. Reactionary? Probably. But so what? I can only dislike what I'm exposed to. It would be infinitely more ridiculous to dislike him only because of what I'd read or heard.
Anyway, you're partly missing the point. I decided a long time before I knew about his past that I disliked him; it was his persona that grated. What he did with his life is largely irrelevant to it.
i was over-egging it, i do apologise for calling you idiotic. but it just seemed a little closed-minded thats all.
You've had countless stories about Pete Doherty, Jack Penate, Kate Nash and Lily Allen in the last two FUCKING days. And you haven't even mentioned this.
I guess they'll get round to it once they've extracted their heads from their arses and someone sees it.
do you remember when New Order/Joy Div. got the Godlike Genius Award a few years ago and they got people like Queens of Noize and Carl Barat to go on about how great Ian Curtis was? If it's going to be like that (Pete, Jack, Kate and Lily on how great Tony Wilson was) i'd rather they stuck to all that other rubbish.
about the John Peel award/stage at Glastonbury then :(
they did that award (The John Peel Award For Innovation, won by...The Others...*cries*) the same year. And got Queens of Noize ("he's the godfather of indie"...FUCK OFF) and Carl Barat ("he never really liked The Libertines did he?") to talk about him as well.
but you have to respect what he did for the music scene we have lost yet another music pioner
Richard Madeley is due to be on Newsnight in a bit to talk about Wilson. Should be special.
I'm so much sadder about this than I ever would have expected. I feel distinctly teary.
I'm much too young to have really experienced any of what I'd consider his legacy firsthand. Ian Curtis was long gone by the time I was born, and I was still in primary school when the Hacienda was at its peak. But I used to sneak into my brothers bedroom to listen to his acid house records and I remember being aware of things, at least. I remember knowing, albeit in a childish and underdeveloped sort of way, that certain things had more weight than others. And ohhh, I hate to sound so sentimental. Especially on an internet message board. But I remember being 13 and hearing Love Will Tear Us Apart and feeling like my belly was all in knots. And I remember finding a vinyl copy of Substance 1987 in Barnados when I was bunking off from netball and how I took it home and listened to it and put the stylus back to Temptation just again and again and again.
And it's stupid, really. Because it's not as if he made the records himself. But he seems so synonymous with everything that has come to make me so fiercelyyyyy proud of being from the North West. And I really do think that he was important.
Oh boy, though. The Phil Saxe quote made me all wobbly. And then I almost had to excuse myself from the room when Stephen Morris was speaking about him on the ten o' clock news.
I quite hope that they stick 24 Hour Party People on in the next week or so. I, controversially, love that film a lot.
the first Tony Wilson I knew was the guy on Granada Reports in the mid Eighties who told "true" "real-life" ghost stories and odd, unexplained type happenings right in the middle of the North West's evening magazine programme. I loved him then.
to understand his true legacy but i was a teenager during the britpop era and i leart about him without him there would be no modren inde scene i see him as the father of the inde movement
whole thing a little far.
Possibly what you wrote above was his own wonderful self hype; With friends, he founded a great record label at the same time that other like minded people created similar labels. He was lucky enough that he was able to mine a incredible period of Lancashire music. What was special about him was himself - any other label boss worth their name should have realised the genius of JD, NO, HM etc. but he sold it with his very arrogant, winning personality, to an extent that similar labels like Mute, for example, could not.
He was a dear man.
and he made some dodgy decisions. But he did it with absolute conviction, while never being one iota as arrogant and unpleasant as McGee. So while his label's musical legacy will never match that of Creation in my eyes, as a person I had a lot of respect for him.
News journalist, quiz show host, rent-a-gob, pundit, label boss. He turned out to be immensely likeable, and like ghostparty says, his loss is a lot sadder than I might have imagined. RIP Tony, you daft old sod.
The Griffin pub in Old St are putting this tribute on tomorrow night:
A Night In Memory of Anthony H. Wilson
Tuesday 14th August
7-11pm @ The Griffin - 93 Leonard St,London EC2. (Old Street tube).
Simon Subsonic (Club NME)
+ Special Guests
some friends who would like to go to this!
whether he came accross as a twat or not, i think his heart was in the right place.