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Can somebody please explain the difference between the two genres?
Post Hardcore is not.
post hardcore is good.
whats the difference between cheese and mud?
the other one, um stems, to cows?
whereas the other stems from hardcore
They both stem from punk, as hardcore is a derivative of punk music.
they sound completely different
they're not jerky enough to be post punk. Post punk was predominantly British as well. Whereas Post Hardcore is mostly american.
they have a dance edge. And they're part of the wave of american bands who took post punk as their key influence.
more Post Post Punk. I feel music labelled as Post Punk comes from a specific period (roughly around 1977-1982) otherwise the name makes no sense whatsoever.
...they aren't very different are they?
Post-punk is stuff in the vibe of Public Image Ltd, Joy Division, Gang Of Four, etc- so, twisting punk and experimenting with it- adding dance, techno, dub styles.
Post hardcore is usually heavier and faster but it came later. You could label bands like Quicksand, Fugazi and Glassjaw as post-hardcore- with the same intensity as hardcore but more experimental and subtle.
That's as rational as I can be bothered with right now.
So post punk is the (generally) lighter, most experimental out of the two.
And post hardcore is an experimental progression on the 'hardcore' genre (which is essentially just a harder, more metal based form of punk).
hardcore is not metal influenced punk. Hardcore is punk ratcheted up, played faster and harder, and built around social and political themes. Hardcore was a political movement as much as a musical one.
it just took hardcore as its starting point and made it more melodic.
post-hardcore is hardcore without the politics. At The Drive In, for example aren't political really. Their lyrics are just nonsense. But with Fugazi you can really hear the anger in the lyrics. That's what makes them so good.
is metal influenced hardcore.
then I raise you Refused.
the only reason you call them post hardcore is that they came after the original purveyors of hardcore.
hardcore is bad brains, minor threat, black flag, circle jerks, flipper etc.
are kinda proto post hardcore ;-D
the name is chronologically based; it was a reaction to punks snarling angry revolutionary rhetoric.
Post hardcore isn't like that. It took hardcore as its influence and molded it into a different form.
As close as you're likely to get...
Post-punk are bands that took the original punk style and experimented with it to create a new style.
Post-hardcore are bands that took the original hardcore style and experimented with it to create a new style.
That is the impression I have been under for a while, I'm sure it's much more complex than that really though if you know yr stuff and read books like 'Our Band Could Be Your Life' and shit.
don't agree, punk showed that it was possible to form a band and make whatever kind of music you want to, the effect of this was bands forming, we now refer to those bands as post punk.
Hardcore was what came after the initial punk boom, but in the US, it was the first US National punk form, meaning all over the Country, creating what we now know as the US indie scene(s).
blah, blah, blah
post punk from a post hardcore scene?
surely punk is also political?
in a land far, far away, perhaps.
but hardcore was a specific reaction to the reagan years. Hardcore is basically american punk, I suppose, very loosely.
can be seen as a reaction to the Thatcher years...
this may help
Post punk generally refers to the particularly fertile and creative period following the initial punk rock 'explosion'. During the first wave of punk, roughly spanning 1976-1983, bands such as The Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Ramones and The Damned began to challenge the current styles and conventions of rock music by stripping the musical structure down to a few basic chords and progressions with an emphasis on speed and attitude. ...
Post punk was typically more introverted, complex, arty, and experimental than classic punk rock or the more pop-oriented New Wave music, post-punk laid the groundwork for alternative rock by broadening the idea of what punk and underground music could do, incorporating elements of Krautrock (specifically in the use of synthesizers), Jamaican dub music, American funk, studio experimentation, and even punk's traditional polar opposite, disco, into the punk rock genre. It found a firm place in the 1980s indie scene. Post-punk's biggest influence remains in the vast variety of sounds and styles it pioneered, many of which proved very influential in the later alternative rock scene.
Post-hardcore, as the name might suggest, is a musical offshoot of the hardcore punk movement. The earliest appearances of the genre were in Washington, D.C. in the mid- to late-1980s (see the era's releases on Dischord Records, for example), though it was not widely known until the early 1990s. Post-hardcore, as a musical genre, is marked by its precise rhythms and loud guitar-based instrumentation accompanied by vocal performances that are as often sung as shouted. ...
The Stooges? 1969? Hardly political firebrands.
also the music i have known to be labelled 'post hardcore' was all released 2001-2004 and was borderline emocore!
that' what all the magazines labelled it.
are we looking for the original descriptions of the genre? or the modern ones?
becuse these days 'post-hardcore' seems just as mixed up and confused as 'emo'.
it means nothing.
I'm happy that a thread like this has come about..because i'm sick of people saying 'don't label music' and shit like that when in fact it enables to have a perspective and look at music historically.
post hardcore is a catch-all term for aggressive music that is neither metal nor indie...only some of those bands include 'post-hardcore' devices i ntheir music attributed to the old DC bands.
One obvious stylistic aspect of post-hardcore/emo which was started by the CD bands such as Rites of Spring is the appregiated guitar lin all the way throug hthe song. This was a simple effort to expand on the 3 chord regime and add melody but still sticking to 3 chords.
However, what is interesting is that modern Dischord bands sound more post-punk (as in iceberg Ash;s definition) than what is now identified as post hardcore.
So if your speaking in 'scenes' and their histories modern 'post-hardcore' bands are modern post-punk.
However if your talking in terms of simply the music and its aesthetic post-hardcore is bascially the shit emocore thats out now and post punk is all the other stuff that isnt quite indie