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Well it’s that time of year again - another *Bad Religion *album to tie us over the summer months. And judging by the artwork, another chance for vocalist Greg Graffin to sink his teeth into whatever political affairs and religious topics that’ve been making his blood boil since 2002’s ‘The Process of Belief’. Which is no bad thing of course. Bad Religion are a band who’ve always kept alive punk’s affinity with political debate and in light of the current situation in Iraq and the farcical way in which Bush responded to the 9/11 attacks there’s more than enough fuel for the fire.

Standout track _‘Let Them Eat War’ _- featuring vocals from underground hip-hop polemicist *Sage Francis *– is a scathing attack on the Bush Administration policies and how they are fast widening the gap between the rich and poor in Dubya’s America (between the greedy and the needy, if you will) while _‘God’s Love’ _and _‘Atheist Peace’ _attempt to integrate Graffin’s Atheist views alongside their anti-war sentiments, the latter bizarrely suggesting that faith = war and atheism = peace!

Ooookay.

Unfortunately, musically, they appear a little short of the mark too. To me, Bad Religion are on form when they are at their most ferocious – as one listen through 1988’s ‘Suffer’ _will prove only too well. It’s only when the pace slips a bit that the BR melody machine starts to get a bit complacent and, well, boring. _‘The Quickening’, as full of soaring three-part harmonies and galloping drums as it is, merely sounds like a band on auto-pilot as they jump from each section like a conventional and well-oiled punk band.

This is by no means a ‘bad’ album, as BR fans will definitely be dancing around their rooms to such fiery-eyed tracks as the aforementioned‘Let Them Eat War’ _and _‘Sinister Rouge’, and you’ll be hard-pushed to find a more topical anti-Bush punk album released this year, but after 20+ years and umpteen albums that - lets face it - haven’t really strayed much from their influential style, does anyone really need another Bad Religion album after this one? Brett’s already a step ahead with his *The Error *side project with Greg from *The Dillinger Escape Plan *but times are changing, and maybe the others should follow his lead.

Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

In today's news: Bad Religion re-release the same album for a record ninth time. Oh no, to be fair, this one has a bit of rap in. How can a band so obsessed with political radicalism be so musically stagnant?

Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

I love listening to "political punk" as I never know quite what political stance these bands are going to take. *irnoy off* ... any republican punk bands? lets face it, it would be more "punk" than the current "war on errorism" breed.. *sigh*

Re: Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

Republican punk? Alright then...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3710263.stm

Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

Republican punk just doesn't seem right, given how much personal freedoms normal americans have has stripped away by the current administration.

Re: Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned Republican punk is the most ridiculous contradiction in terms, though there is actually a conservativepunk.com, and a series of other stupid patriotic "punk" websites (please don't give them web traffic by visiting them, you might encourage them). As far as I'm concerned there is no point whatsoever being conservative in today's world - its an intellectually bankrupt idea. Its just for old people who don't know any better, neo-liberal (i.e. shit) economists, and people that think its clever to be cynical.

I'll argue at length with anyone who thinks those twats the Ramones "invented punk" (or the Sex Pistols for that matter). Also The Vandals - both Republican and shit: the worst possible combination for anyone calling themselves "punk".

Re: Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

who 'invented' punk in your opinion?

Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

About the faith = war, atheism = peace idea, Graffin does actually have a legitimate point, though put in such terms, it is bound to cause confusion.

One of the best proponents of this idea is the philosopher Peter Singer (though the idea goes back further to a guy called W.K. Clifford writing in the late 19th century). I know this offends people (the fact that it does goes some way towards proving the point), but Singer tries to explain the way in which faith-based judgement necessarily goes hand in hand with an incoherent ethical system - it's ultimately based on "because I/God said so" logic, and a series of logically unconnected and untested pronouncements.

Faith in terms of "religion" is the symptom of a much wider dogma-based way of thinking: ideas like "art" are virtually indistinguishable from cults, and our current political system is based on competing fundamentalisms, e.g. the individualism of libertarianism and conservatism vs. left-wing social fundamentalism, vs. "Third Way" "social justice" and neo-liberalism e.g. the pointless New Labour obsession with "consumer choice". Even Euro-American analytic philosophy refuses to come to terms with the critique of the concept of "being".

I'm a postgrad student researching the idea of anti-fundamentalist discourse, which relies on shifting rather than fixed premises. It would take a long time to explain what that means, but one of the key points is that it is only when people stop revelling in the idea of having unshakeable "principles", stop thinking in terms of "right", "true" and "good", and move towards the more universal and grounded language of "useful to...", can we have any hope of resolving conflicts properly. Its not so much that faith necessarily leads to war, but rather without faith, people wouldn't want to go to war, or cause the political conflicts that lead to war.

Read 'His Dark Materials' by Phillip Pullman. Its basically a critique, cunningly disguised as three childrens' books, of the frankly offensive, but widely held idea that the only alternative to faith is moral nihilism.

Re: Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

Nobody. Its a meaningless question which a lot of people seem to like asking. You have to ask who invented subversive social movements, who invented guitar chords, who invented certain types of chord progression, who invented the word "punk", it all becomes totally ridiculous. My point about the Ramones is that I don't think they can be classified as "punk" at all without the socio-political dimension.

As Refused used to say, the idea of punk as a musical genre is antithetical to the idea of punk as a revolutionary social phenomenon - a point which I think has passed Bad Religion by. I think of punk more as a particular questioning, anti-establishment disposition, which Bad Religion certainly do have in spades.

Re: Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

Chiaroscuro, you're probably one of the few people I've come accross who has a good understanding about just how ambiguous and complicated the term 'punk is. I based my university thesis on the argument that punk isn't a term bound by musicological connotations, that the subversive ideas linked to the punk ideology about challenging conventions and 'absolutes' can be applied to other underground scenes that have overcome adversity to affect real change.

Do you want to look at the history of the 'punk-rock' movement or do you want to look at where the ideas which proliferated in the punk rock movement of the late 70s came from? How about starting with the existentalist theories popularised by Hegel; the liberal humanist ideas presented in Eastern mysticism; the abstract, post-modernist ideas that shocked the art world at the Armory show in New York in 1913?

Without getting too deep into this you could argue that these ideas are the absolute roots of the punk ideology. Punk is a mentality, not a musical genre or movement. As Snapcase said, 'Revolutionise your thinking' and your participation in the world changes.

Re: Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

Chiaroscuro, you're probably one of the few people I've come accross who has a good understanding about just how ambiguous and complicated the term 'punk is. I based my university thesis on the argument that punk isn't a term bound by musicological connotations, that the subversive ideas linked to the punk ideology about challenging conventions and 'absolutes' can be applied to other underground scenes that have overcome adversity to affect real change.

Do you want to look at the history of the 'punk-rock' movement or do you want to look at where the ideas which proliferated in the punk rock movement of the late 70s came from? How about starting with the existentalist theories popularised by Hegel; the liberal humanist ideas presented in Eastern mysticism; the abstract, post-modernist ideas that shocked the art world at the Armory show in New York in 1913?

Without getting too deep into this you could argue that these ideas are the absolute roots of the punk ideology. Punk is a mentality, not a musical genre or movement. As Snapcase said, 'Revolutionise your thinking' and your participation in the world changes.

Re: Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

I couldn't agree more. I enjoy telling people how the Sex Pistols were just fly-by-night pseudo-anarchists who were about as punk as my mum. If Hegel was punk, being "Hegelian" is like playing "pop-punk", i.e. a total contradiction in terms. If anything, the reseach I'm doing at the moment is a kind of "punk" philosophy, based on the idea of a kind of ontological/epistemological "anti-system" beyond modernism and post-modernism - how to be anti-fundamentalist without getting mired in Derridean doublespeak.

I tend to think revolutionary people and events tell us a lot more about what's wrong than what's right - they're there for inspiration, not immitation. As far as I'm concerned, modern "conceptual art" seems to constitute the failure to capitalise on the opportunity Duchamp gave us to kill the art cult. One day people will understand.

Re: Bad Religion - The Empire Strikes First

yeah, but gaijin just asked if republican punk existed, and sadly it does

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