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Try-hard London wankers pretend they live in warehouses.

People actually live in houses or flats.

I let Toby deal with all that stuff

idk

I stand there the entire time just thinking "If there was a fire in here we're all absolutely FUCKED". It can't be legal, can it? Can't be.

and hope they don't come knocking after 11pm. After we got thrown out we stayed for a while by saying we were working and then locked the gates at 11pm so they couldn't come in and see we were also sleeping there. Unfortunately the landlords wanted to turn the place over back to commercial use (or at least rebuilt it so it complied with fire regulations) so we had no choice but to leave in the end.

I don't know really. My friend was visiting from abroad and I wasn't paying much attention to the whole thing.

and the tenants will just get turfed out, often without notice.

as turn up and go 'GET THE FUCK OUT, NOW!'

I want no part of your immoral capitalist junta". Then you try and punch them but you're too weak from the smack, so they cart you off to the police station and ring your parents who live in rural Dorset to come pick you up. You eventually become a well-connected stockbroker. Cool story bro

they just have to prove that they are using the space they live in for work stuff?? seems weird, but they can as they do

long story short it's ok.

maybe

basically the way it works is the building will have some kind of planning consent from when it was originally built that states what the approved use is.

change of use only requires a planning application if the change is "substantial" - ie, putting in a home office in a house wouldn't require a change of use, but changing a house into an office wholesale would require it. I would imagine however that changing a warehouse into residential would definitely need a change of use.

although I'm not sure how this works for buildings pre-1947 as they would predate the modern planning system and I have no idea how building worked before then.

I remember reading years ago that illicit changes was such an issue in Brooklyn that the NYC government had people whose job would be to find places that had been changed over illegally, like they had to dress like hipsters and find out about parties to get inside and stuff. BEST JOB EVER.

As cementimental says, it's quite grey, and they've probably kept it deliberately murky.

guntrip is correct about the planning law aspects. i'm just looking into what the council's remedies would be for breach of that and timescales involved etc.

TBH, I don't think I can frame this for you in a way that's going to give you sufficient comfort so as to say RIGHT, let's do this, I'm almost confident we can resist any challenge. NOt least because if that was possible, then we'd all be living in commercial properties. However, stranger things have happened. Let me keep digging.

it's my gf's place in question, she'll be in Glasgow on sunday :)

There is going to be a risk of eviction, it all depends on your appetite for taking that on. Best use of our time and brains here I think is to find out whether there are any stalling techniques (e.g. so that you cannot be immediately evicted without prior notice) and that will help to quantify the risk.

bravo

the actual people living there are in a pretty strong position re:getting evicted, and yeah can totally stall for a court order etc... if they don't cave in to blatantly illegal eviction they should have as much advance notice of eviction and all that sort of rights and stuff as someone renting a normal flat.

So then it comes down to the terms of your agreement with the person you are letting it from. Because the risk inherently lies with them, they may attempt to shift this risk contractually by saying in the contract e.g. that there can be eviction on say 5 days notice in the event that the council challenges the occupation/ use.

alcxxk, are they at the stage of negotiating a contract yet? Or is she already in? I'm happy to take a look at her contract if you like, (I mean, it's not as if I have a plc to buy or anything ;D).

for different uses too.

although that will be imposed by law rather than in terms of a piece of paper (be it a permission or a contract). Hmmm.

You're more likely to get evicted with no notice and the landlord fined because of a breach of fire regulations than you are with a breach of planning laws.

I paid a deposit and a month's rent on a room in one once (then there was a clusterfuck with my previous flat and I couldn't move out :( ) and there was never a mention or even whisper of a contract, just paid my rent/deposit in cash.

even tho it will probably be a total joke and some random boilerplate stuff the guy googled up and didn't properly change all the appropriate info

just harder to prove stuff if it comes to it

because the tenant r\arely has any bargaining power and ends up singing up to draconian terms. No contract means the leaseholder only has the remedies available at law and no enhanced protections. It's a bit dangerous, but ultimately better for the tenant in these situatoins.

will ask her. she's just at the stage of finding vaguely threatening letters from the council being all "uh guys"

Does it have separate rooms? How is it furnished? How do you get WiFi installed?

a big space gets converted with small sleeping rooms for everyone (often using mezanines) and a bathroom, leaving still a big open plan kitchen/living room area with space to do work (eg big enough to convert into a photography studio, or run other small businesses)

no idea why you think a warehouse can't have wifi though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_World

am oot.

I mean someone has to install it, pay the bills etc which if you're technically not supposed to be living there seems difficult to me? Same with all the utilities really I suppose.

I don't think it'd be for me, I like walls and separate rooms too much.

I can speak to her on sunday if easier.

It's just that if the council had a problem with everyone living in that area they probably would have tried to shut they whole place down when they threw us out. They're down with it.

if it was fountayne road, and i'd thank you for it

places of work have telephones and electricity and running water

Tenants have nothing to do with it and just pay for it with the rent?

I probably should have worked that out with about 5 seconds worth of thinking really.

Well, most do. I looked at one once where two of the rooms only had curtains. I didn't move in there.

with regard to utilities, the rent for the one I was gonna move into was inclusive of everything except wifi, so the bills for electricity, water etc stayed in the landlord's name. I don't know why it would be difficult though, it isn't as if Virgin Media report all their new installations to the local authority or anything.

generally non residential areas, so you get away with a lot more with regard to parties

just generally less interference from landlords re pets, modifications, contracts

Landlord paid all the bills so our rent was all inclusive. Wifi was business internet and so was really good. Some warehouses are really shit with flimsy plaster walls but when they're built well they are incredible and so much fun. Look at this! https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/12192_10151158835880248_1179314122_n.jpg and this was our lovely "rustic" kitchen https://www.dropbox.com/s/hx4vfu77beylaga/.facebook_2075909312.jpg and here is my room RIP https://www.dropbox.com/s/ln8x4x4g23coxfv/2013-01-14%2021.40.55.jpg YEAH I HAVE A WANKY FLAG SO WHAT

Still don't think it'd be for me frankly but I now understand it. Thanks guys.

but every warehouse space I have been in in the UK has been fucking freezing. I was in some place in Hackney where they had some old heaters blasting the whole time but people were wearing hats and jackets - must be a massive carbon footprint and energy costs/efficency ii some of those older places.

It used to be a meat packing / processing place and there was this really grim tiled room with a big metal butcher's table in the middle that someone had optimistically set up as a tattoo studio. It looked like something from Saw. The crusties who lived there complained about noise if we practised past about 9pm. Lol, well done for moving into a place like that if you don't like noise.

I'm sure there are plenty of places that work, but that one was a disaster.

it wasn't very organised, even though they paid a little rent.

One of these http://www.securefixdirect.com/ekmps/shops/securefixdirect/images/2500kgs-2.5-ton-hand-pallet-pump-truck-deluxe-standard-fork-lift-trolley-jack-4016-p.jpg

Get a good rhythm with the pump and you can reach surprisingly hair-raising speeds.

order it and then wait like a million years for them to install it and then it doesn't work

the hipsters inevitably follow because it becomes a cool fun interesting creative place to bee

:)

http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4430842#r7520724

London

I'm filing it under: Things that don't appeal to me but would be daft to get worked up about.