Who did it better: Kanye West or Hanatarash? (power electronics-centric)
At the end of his recent Hammersmith Apollo show, Kanye West treated the audience to a very short short power electronics set (about one minute long). You can watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ck7tQx2lBoQ#t=1m10s
Japanese noise hero Hanatarash also did a similar set for a similar length of time about five or so years ago. You can watch that one here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7p_C9OlN40
But who does it better? My preference is for Hanatarash, of course, but I know there's a fair few (pretend) Kanye West fans on here who might disagree.
What do you think? 'This' your favourite below.
Hmmm, interesting...
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Kanye West.
Hanatarash.
most depraved thing I've seen in ages
excellent
Would've been even better with the same cloud backdrop as Kanye's though.
what is power electronics?
it's like Noise
but will yelling and/or racism
Who is Will?
Smith
Ah so
Is Boom Shake The Room power electronics?
*with
Bennett
they're very much both on an accoustic accapella kind of tip
aka not real noise.
I dunno
Never stopped Masonna.
It's not noise, no. It's power electronics.
Kanye loses by virtue of the fact he relied on digital after effects to get his sound (autotune, reverb, delay). Hanatarash did it with no effects, relying solely on his own talent and amplification.
ah right
wheres the power then?
noise & power electronics are for pussies who can't handle sub-bass.
High squwaling frequencies are very twee young man.
But much much worse for your hearing
and therefore more manly. No pain, no gain.
twee and manly...
like fox hunting?
Sub bass makes me move; bass weight definitely is meditative
but screeching frequencies are transcendent in the truest sense of the word. It's like a shock to your system, you feel completely dizzy and need to recalibrate your senses. At least for me.
Pretty sure I attained a higher state of being whilst watching Kevin Drumm last year.
I dunno
I've heard some noise sets live and they don't come close to even Jurassic 5 at Leeds fest for extream frequencies and that aint even a lie. They did a mad sub bass tone for a few minuets and the ground shook, people felt dizzy, people fell over, didn't know what the hell was going on. Its was extream. And that doesn't come close to a good dub soundsystem in a smaller room either. It moves your innards, flap your nostrils. High frequencies are just kinda there.
thats because noise artists are poor
and marginalised and can't play in big high end venues or spend drug dealing/illegal rave money on massive soundsystems :D
they're missing a trick
haha
actually i've seen some US noise artists post some pretty amazing soundsystems on the messageboards
there are quite a few really serious and pro gear/amplification guys in noise.
I guess I'm saying that harsh noise isn't against or a stranger to sub bass :)
Technique-wise there's nothing stopping us using subbass, using electronics outside of their intended musical parameters, especially with feedback, easily makes insanely low frequencies. As you say it's mainly the lack of access to high end systems. I've had no trouble making the room shake when I have played at a half decent club venue tho and have never broken a speaker
uh
except my own hi-fi speaker when i allowed my housemates to play iron maiden at full volume as a message to the neighbors playing dub at club volume all day next door :(
on a sunday
sounds great
you can have both
when you have sub bass you dont' need the other bits tho
they just kinda sit on top doing nothing.
plus
a noise dude isn't gonna have a go on a soundsystem big enough to even try out true sub bass cos the highs would break it all at that volume.
Well you'd have to have a different setup, this video is just screaming thu guitar amps
I've seen/played some pretty bass heavy noise sets. Some more highbrow 'sound art' types have taking it further and done things like making bass drones with the resonant frequency of the building they're in so the whole thing shakes :)
Nice
Its a bit guradian art segmant tho innit compared to Coki who just you know destyros places prob just using fruityloops haha.
ha indeed
Emptyset did this
There was some sort of article in The Wire about someone doing this and literally nearly bringing the building down too.
Emptyset is half dubstep dude half art gallery dude innit
Ginz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eJTj-r99i0
I'm a big fan of sound art type dubstep and techno
But it comes with being a noise fan I think. Still appreciate Coki, there's room enough for both in my life.
I've got nowt against any of it
I just like the false bravardo of noise/power-electronics its like am-dram musical theater or something in its presentation.
Same thing with grime and dubstep to an extent
kinda
well when I think dubstep I think dark room and a bit of smoke you can't see anyone up front but the bob of a head and a fag light its really ego nutral like that. Well some of it at least.
But yeah grime is fucking eastenders on ice.
fucking eastenders on ice
is possibly the best thing I have ever read to describe a music genre.
['your mum' joke]
guys are we actually arguing about which frequencies are better
shut up man this was a good thread
don't ruin the illusion
Midrange really got shafted in this thread.
``Hanatarash did it with no effects, relying solely on his own talent``
Proper tunes, proper haircuts
Two questions
a) Is there a difference between Hanatarash and Hanatarashi? I vaguely remember them being the same bloke but am happy to be corrected.
b) Was it him (or one of them) who cut the dead animal in half on stage that time? Think it was a cat but again, happy to be corrected.
If I recall, they were only called Hanatarashi for the first album. Not sure why they dropped the 'i' to be honest.
Yeah, I think it was a cat they cut in half. But their most infamous gig was driving a bulldozer through the back wall of the venue:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/d710d6bd22adef769c9cb557c4e5a64a/tumblr_mhd3tnyBq71qcabyio1_1280.jpg
http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~gin/rock/japan/hanatarasi/hanatarashi2/hana.bw28.jpg
Cementimental will probably be along shortly, he'll probably know the answer.
i'm not sure either, but yeah he just dropped the i at some point
it means "snot-nosed" :D
they sound like dickheads
einstuerzende neubauten are pillocks eh
what a wally pete townshend is
earl brutus: nincompoops
well, yeah. He is.
there's one live video where he just starts lobbing panes of glass apparetly right into the audience
Poor man's Eugenics Council, mate.
I've seen that
Would probably have been a bit more dangerous if there were more than about 8 people there.
:D
Kanye really - at least it's more effective.
Hanatarash is making a right racket but it's exactly what you expect in that situation. Kanye (though you might expect him to be a little more erratic than most) you don't really expect to just start screaming away on a large stage.
This is really just a general point about transgression, that art which purports to be niche or extreme is sort of de-powered by being limited to a tiny audience of the already-converted, who are all familiar with the genre tropes wherein someone running about with a microphone in their mouth is little different to Eric Clapton's gurning guitarsolo sexface (or whatever).
Of course if you just enjoy the sound of howling (as I do), it's simply a question of personal preference.
Kanye's is more offensive to the ears too
we all know what a scream sounds like but we don't want to know what a Kanye half scream, sing, desperate whimper sounds like. Its disturbing.
contextualised like this, to an audience of The National fans
it's clear that the Hanatarash performance is the more electrifying.
But even in a noise context, there's something awesome about a long-defunct act with a much, much more popular psych-punk band on the go returning for 50 seconds to debase himself and howl the howl of nothing-but-howling on his knees face to face with his fans and then simply switch the power off. Much more awesome than a multimillionaire autohypemaster wailing for a bit over a backing track
Don't quite understand what you mean
Where are The National fans in this? Hanatarash is performing to Hanatarash fans. I doubt any of them watched that and thought `well, that was surprising`. Whereas Kanye seems more like a genuine loose cannon, seems like he's going off script, and thus is more likely to provoke the respective audience into a reaction.
None of which, as I said, is to stop anyone from preferring the sound of Hanatarash's voice over Kanye's, or to think he's `cooler` or `more awesome`.
contextualised on DiS/community/boards/music
Kanye is always going off-script, he positively relishes causing a stir! His wailing is an obvious show of angst, of externalised emotional incoherence we'd NEVER have guessed was there from his lyrics!
Hanatarash is howling. It's what he does. And it's never not going to cause me excitement - the howling for its own sake - especially when given in such tight doses, laid out as a complete statement by an artist of genius (as proven both elsewhere and here).
Your argument just seems to be that you like Hanatarash more
therefore he's better. Which is fair, but I think different from what I'm saying.
No, your argument was that you'd expect that from Hanatarash but not Kanye
I'm saying that for various reasons I very much disagree with this. Kanye's wailing is self-indulgent angst very much in character, Hanatarash's appearance after many years not performing in that guise is brilliantly brief and to-the-point; no fat, nothing extra. It transcends expectations, if you'll allow, or at least it fulfils expectations in a manner that is transcendentally euphoric. I can guarantee that any Hanatarash fan in attendance would have reached a state of near-enlightenment in the moment of that switch being turned off
I suppose it's not SO out of character for Kanye. Be a bit weirder if it were Adele or something.
Certainly there is a beauty in the brevity of the particular circumstances in that Hanatarash clip.
In the land of harsh music, context is king
*volume
*STDEV
(~_~;) at the blogosphere going OMG KANYE HAS GONE CRAZY SO WEIRD LOL
when HE'S WEARING A STRAIGHTJACKET ON STAGE and THATS THE JOKE
I would have loved to have seen Hantarash's bulldozer gig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJUbd66Vcc
going to watch these at lunch
will review from a point of near ignorance later!
are the end of gigs
when bands chuck all their stuff about, leave loads of pedals on and walk off with it all going off in an explosion for 5 minutes considered to be 'noise sets?'
no but usually the best bit in most cases
No
I think that's just letting everything ring out, for effect.
...in the same way that noise artists do over a full set, you mean?
if a noise act does this at the end is it double-noise?
I like it when noise acts reverse the usual dynamic
and end their set by doing a three-minute jangly indie-pop song.
Tom Jones does it better than both of them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP3jaK_pZ8M
Kanye finally realises that
Music is Total Fucking Shit System
I thought the Kanye West bit was quite pretty
If it had been just him screaming, it woulda been one thing, but with the little bit of a backing track behind him, it comes off is really lovely - especially with that backdrop.
Hanatarash is all well and good, but you can only get SO abrasive before you begin to alienate people in the wrong ways. The original video did nothing for me, and I really like noise. They're veterans of that scene, but it almost came off as amateurish.
Whereas with Mr. West, it actually felt very intentional, to the point that he was wearing a straightjacket there. He knows how to interest his audience, and he did that weird thing about as long as most people could be bothered to deal with it.
But that's just me.
cool thread ^__^
They have those clips on popstars & britains got tallent etc
where its just short bits of people mid long note, belting it out, then it quickly cuts to another blem doing the same in quick succession. Now thats good power-electronics.
Now That's What I Call Power Electronics!
Like most genre names power electronics is a bit of a misnomer
since it's not usually as 'electronic' or as sonically 'powerful' as harsh noise :D
BUT anyway re: all this sub bass talk it's not all about sonic power, there are other things noise does that are different to what other music is trying to do, bassy or not....
I hope the final unannounced act on your Consumer Electronics lineup is
a Kanye West/Hanatarash collaboration :D
How long before a noise act with a name parodying Kanye surfaces?
Kanye needs moe fx, more layers. Looping.
Would have been great. He's got a good pair of lungs on him, he could have made some really rich sounding Noise. he threw his mic down just as it was getting going, but I guess that given the context it's pretty extreme.
There's some interesting discussion in this thread. Arguably, Sunn O))) create sub-bass noise, and it is an incredible experience. I have also seen Aaron Dilloway working with brainwave changing frequencies, high and low. But neither of those are power electronics. PE is a digital medium, those two are analogue, and Kanye dint crank up the Electronics, or the Power anywhere near as far as he could, but it would never occur to him because that screaming was as far out as he could conceive.
Possibly.
" PE is a digital medium, those two are analogue, "
would be a spectacular piece of trolling on a noise board :D If anything PE people are more misguidedly and ignorantly analog-purist than harsh noise people.
I guess it's the 'Electronics' bit that confuses them
Or me.
Or both.
^me too
when I hear the name power electronics I want powerful electronics not some accapella work with a bloke and a mic, hell he didn't even need the mic at that volume in that venue by the looks of it. WTF is that all about at least Kanye used power and electronics to power his clouds. We've all been to a random pub in the wrong side of a provintial town and heard harsher power electronics from someone on a karioki night when the backing track cuts out and you can't get the drunk fuck off the mic.
I've fallen foul of a genre trap
My interpretation of PE has always been an overwhelming use of synths and extreme harsh fx to power the noise.
What I meant with that SunnO)))/Dilloway bit was in reply to the discussion upthread about frequencies and noise being no stranger to extremes of frequency. But I was excluding them from the context of this thread because I don;t consider them PE - and PE fans wouldn;t either would they?
ARGH'm just going to stop talking now.
jimi, that pub sounds great. get me one. maybe guys like this will seem familiar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_oy6G5ACzM
Yeah that's right but EXPENSIVE ANALOG GEAR snobbery abounds :D
(tho actually Whitehouse used digital effects a lot in their later work)
You and me both
actually harsh noise and power electronics used to be almost the same thing when I started out around 2000 but it kind of genre-seperated into the former referring to Merzbow etc and the latter Whitehouse and the like. The idea of it being acapella yelling is a bit of a red herring since in most cases 'power electronics' is usually synth-heavy and/or feedback-centric noise with yelling about some 'edgy' subject over the top of it.
Hanatarash is noise/junk-noise not really 'Power Electronics'.
HOWEVER on occasions PE acts do use acapella vocals to great effect. there's a brilliant moment on Consumer Electronics' "Crowd Pleaser" EP where the noise cuts out and it's just Philip Best's voice but they've edited out all the pauses between words, sounds so absurd and intense. When he did a similar thing live at one show I was at people actually started moshing. You can complain about a perceived lack of 'powerful' sound but there's a different kind of power in just being able to make the room go crazy by yelling into a mic. :)
* yelling with some total cheese echo and/or phaser etc vocal effects in most cases
can't wait for the collab.
On a side note, I really enjoyed the debate over the relative merits of certain frequency ranges.
I had a test for tinnitus and waiting on an MRI scan
but apparently I've lost my higher range so Kanye just sounded like the teacher from Peanuts
This thread just continues to deliver
Wasn't Hanatarash a band though?
Not a solo artist - or 'noise hero' - as you imply?
I'm guessing you're a pretend fan.
I've watched these now
Hanatarasharasharash is much better. Much more explosive!
Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahanatarash
PETER YOU'VE LOST THE NOISE
Those were both quite fun
Not much to add to the earlier discussion other than I found it quite interesting that both performances shared a similar theatricality*.
*Perfectly cromulent word.
AWWWWW
my friend's Whitehouse/ABC mashup isn't on youtube any more :(
Obviously you have never heard of Mike Patton, GayGuevara