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*photo of people holding not Sieg Heiling*

i'll try again

*photo of people not Sieg Heiling*

sieg heil...?

rather than a Nazi thing if you ask me.

wait what

I might go see for myself.

what's so odd about that? I've seen that at countless gigs...

There's a video below the photo..

LOOK AT THEM, FACISTS

still not totally sure

pretty odd definition of fist-bump.

'tis a bit suspect but I don't think it's enough to cast the band off as fascists.

they do seem to have the bravado of young guys just trying to provoke.

the stuff about Danes wanting to "send Muslims back to Muslimland" is a little more worrying, could just be that Iceage are a product of their environment and don't know how to express themselves without resorting to weird, pseudo Nazi salutes and alluding to the fact that their singer stab you in the face if you happened to tick him off.

all in all though...the first time I heard Iceage was just now, watching that video where they're all wearing hoods and stuff. sounds like The Smiths covering black metal badly.

For one thing, the article does attempt to soften the attack, positing that they do it to strike a pose, and I don't think it'd massively change how much I enjoy their music (although there is certainly a limit), but on the other hand it smacks of a certain amount of naivety to claim that these sort of actions exist in a bubble.

And yeah, maybe they are just being a bit naive, but it's fair game to expose this sort of behaviour for what it is: Definitely Questionable.

Those gestures are enough to be looked upon as fairly questionable.

I'm referring to the picture.

but that first record... I'm listening right now, I swear it didn't sound this good first time round.

the photo was pretty much unnecessary given the video, anyway.

then I realised that would be a genuinely intriguing car wreck

Or another smug blogpost?

Dunno what to think really. I'll probably still listen to them, they sound more like stupid kids than anything. Intrigued to see what the quietus write about this, if anything, as they massively gushed about the first album and have previous for calling out non existent racism.

if this was some guy you knew drawing shit pictures of iron crosses/kk dudes and listening to nsbm there'd be no question whether he was racist. people defend indefensible shit because they don't want to admit that they don't care enough about racism to stop listening to a band they like.

(and joining the edl)

he wasn't racist, but in this sort of case it might be more ambiguous

cool though

That's not an attack on you, I just mean even if the photo did show people making a Nazi salute you presumably already believe that people can do this from a non-fascist, ironic point of view, yeah?

because if it were some guy I know i'd know whether he was really racist or not and in this particular hypothetical case I am saying he wouldn't be. as opposed to some band i don't know where i can't be sure whether they're for real or just using shock imagery for dubious/unoriginal artistic purposes.

There's only a very, very small Nazi-environment in Denmark and I really can't imagine Icage being part of it. We've had the Islam-debate like almost any other European country. Iceage just use different symbols and don't put much into it, other than that there's blood and dread and cool and stuff - I think that's pretty much it, like many other teenagey boys. The thing is, if they were affiliated with Nazis or the Danish People's Party (whose fraction of outright racists is small, still), they wouldn't be able to keep it to themselves (DK is too small a country) and they wouldn't have any fans, at all, in Denmark. I don't think you can find many Danish neo-Nazis or Danish People's Party-voters who have ever heard of Iceage.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/britains-nazi-punk-scene-is-alive-and-limping

i was reading this thread from the bottom up and immediately guessed who this was in reply to

i cant wait now for their electrowerkz show. nothing better than casual fascism :P

using racist imagery for shock value seems pretty racist to me. surprised you're so pro-nazi what with all the right-onness in the feminism threads. is it because some of your pals are terrible awful bigots?

tho i do hang around with a bunch of noise people of varying levels of inappropriate/'edgy' behaviour and attire. (i have a more offensive but also more obviously 'ironic' friend's swastika-related-clothing anacdote but I don't remember if i ever told DiS about it or not... if so maybe that's what you remember) (and that guy isn't a nazi for what it's worth)

Oh yeah I probably posted the XE hoodie but nobody I know actually bought or wore that, even at the Broken Flag fest none of the probably actually racist power electronics guys dared to either it seems....

People can do whateverrr.

I 'care' in that of course i'm against actual real life fascism and racism, and more importantly i just can't decide which 'side' of this stuff is more easy and fun to mock and/or troll on the internet. :D

this dude we're on about is hypothetical ^u^;>

in such a straightforward 'shock tactics' way or at all really.

to clarify, re: "presumably already believe that people can do this from a non-fascist, ironic point of view, yeah?" - what, you don't believe this!? Seems like a weird statement, of course people can and do make ironic, satirical or just emptily-provocative use of nazi symbols etc. and obviously it doesn't make them literally a nazi.

Whether you're racist or not, drawing swastikas on things makes you an attention seeking cunt of massive proportions.

http://boy-london.com/

and i'm not saying it's a good idea either

the recovery tactic was to change it into a window of a house :3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Contemporary_use_in_Asia

oops

I just thought they were dumb kids

Does that mean I'm a racist now?

I swear if you just listened to the music and looked at the artwork of that one album you could easily miss it. Unless i'm just really not paying attention. have never looked at his zines or read any interviews or owt.

But seriously, no matter how hectoring and overly rhetorical that blog post is, some of that stuff in it is pretty worrying.

http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4307740#r6357501

Personally I don't think the Holocaust is quite suitable for irony without some pretty heavy caveats, the main one being that people shouldn't be able to miss the fact that you are being ironic.

and i'm Maltese. Definitely racists.

:)

....but at night I just like a cup of tea, I might not be able to devote meself full-time to the auld racism

that their sound is so much like Warsaw-era Joy Division. Which is largely why I love Iceage so much. And look at how much the flirting with Nazi imagery harmed JD's career, let alone New Order. Not that much when it comes to liberal broadsheet deification. I do think the 'Iceage knife' merchandise was silly and it would be hideous if they really were on the wrong side of the political spectrum. Time will tell. They are, though, a stonking live act.

Dunno what you even think you're disagreeing with

I'm not disagreeing with anything, just pointing out I found it weird you cared either way if they were giving Nazi salutes or not in that photo.

this 'controversy' happened way back when they first came out and nothing came of it because nothing is happening here.

I've only just downloaded Iceage's new record, and I haven't ever listened to a not they've made - but a lot of that article just seems like a lot of grasping at straws. Like the bit where he's analyzing the lyrics, and instead of showing how there's racist iconography in them, he just says that they're stupid.

It's really quite sloppy. I mean, loads of bands have used racist iconography and things equally as "shocking" in things, and those bands aren't racist. The cover of Dead Kennedy's "Holiday in Cambodia" single is a photo of a Thai student's corpse being beaten with a chair, and I never really thought Dead Kennedy's were racist. Punk bands have been doing things like that since punk was barely a thing.

This bit kinda bothers me too:
"1. They wear Burzum buttons. Main Burzum guy Varg Vikernes is a neo-Nazi, who murdered a guy and burned three churches, not necessarily in that order."

I mean, I like Burzum and really liked the documentary about the Norwegian Black Metal scene, but I'm just a pasty Jew from the suburbs. Doesn't really mean I'm all that dangerous. And that photo/video of their fans sieg heiling (is that the proper phrase?) are more just documents of people throwing up their fists and such while rocking out. I've done that same thing at loads of shows.

I just don't understand where all of that is coming from, and I don't understand why they see the need to insult the band and their fans, and complain that their fans could be listening to Real Estate or Grizzly Bear. It's really very sloppy.

it's constantly "i'm not saying they're racists because obviously there's not evidence to say they are, but they are probably racists, is what i'd say if it wasn't for the lack of evidence supporting it. that said, i think they are racists"

when's that?

It's basically a textbook example of someone basing an argument on the fallacy that correlation implying causation. "They like this thing, which has been linked to that racist thing, meaning that they must be racist!" I mean, I like Morrissey and all, but I don't have a problem with the monarchy, and I really like burgers.

I'm wondering if they were attempting a strawman argument, and felt like Iceage was the best band to do this with. It's really obvious when he says, "Let's look at racism in the lyrics," but then ends up saying "there isn't any, the lyrics are just stupid."

What gives?

find it somewhat counterproductive, in that I tend to leave with the impression that they're preoccupied with whoring for retweets rather than putting across their actual opinions

Sounded a bit like "White Rule" - so I had my suspicions. I hope they are not racist though - because I quite like them.

Then again, Adam Ant used to wear swastikas, and his early lyrics toyed with fascist iconography - including one blatantly racist song, and he remains one of my all time heroes of music. Funny that.

which seems like a different kettle of pish to me

There are COUNTLESS industrial bands that dress up like nazis and don't get get accused of being involved with it.

Just worried that they may feel more or less inclined to call out perceived racism based on how much they like the artist.

http://www.libertynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ancient-aliens-invisible-something-meme-generator-i-m-not-saying-it-was-aliens-but-it-was-aliens-c549c7.jpg

which is of course, fine, but going to these lengths to try and dissuade other people seems a bit much

And then handed it back to the teacher saying he refused to do such a racist worksheet. :D

http://www.collapseboard.com/blogs/iceage-smart-and-naive-can-be-a-dangerous-combination-too/

this is pretty much the experience of the band I met and played with

Barely any actual evidence, just loads of baseless assumptions. The only thing that is a bit weird is the picture that the lead singer drew, but it sounds like he's already answered those criticisms.

The use of that Danish People's Party 'FACT', as if it somehow indicates that Danish band's might be a bit racist is laughable. I mean, come on. Can't believe people are taking that seriously.

its from a really, really early demo. I'm not excusing it, it's dumb, but teenagers do shit like this.

Interestingly, Fucked Up had their own controversy like this way, way back when

perfectly encapsulates why I find it so dislikeable

zero meaningful content, just vacant social justice tumblrisms, weird ad hominems and pisspoor "no u" word-twisting

his response is sort of hilarious though

'I can only imagine those that those who live in luxury and fear the stink of being overcivilised would find pleasure in Iceage.'

Every time I come across Collapse Board it always strikes me as a sort of rogue state peopled solely by keyboard warriors... the writers who write for it don't seem to write for anyone else and they all seem incredibly worked up about things that normal people would probably try and rationalise first.

The drummer I think.

It has quotes from ACTUAL MEMBERS OF DANISH PARLIAMENT in there (and the fact that the quotes are not attributed to anyone, dated, or given any context whatsoever is obviously totally irrelevant).

The most annoying thing about this article is that the author clearly set out to do a hatchet job on Iceage and went looking for 'facts' relating to their racism on this basis. When he obviously couldn't find much except for Barzum pins and videos of fans punching the air at gigs, he proceeds to make utterly baseless assumptions about Denmark's political and social state in order to conclude that doing 'nothing' in this context is tantamount to racism. So basically, in lieu of any actual evidence of Iceage's racism, call their entire country inherently racist and them PART OF THE PROBLEM because they have not taken an actively anti-racist stand (well, except that they have in other easily accessible interviews)

As coolerthantv says above, I cannot believe that anyone has taken this even vaguely seriously

but just to say, everyone says Motorhead are racist. I went once and these absolutely GIANT men in bomber giants (like 6'8" type giant) were in crowd doing nazi salutes and all that crap.

So they were racist. The rest of the crowd weren't.

So I guess what I'm saying cunts and cunts and don't use their cuntness to tar other people.

WORD.

is that collapseboard really need to increase their font size

new album is amazing

they now have SIX articles on the subject, it's kind of weird and creepy now.

but after three sentences the hurt, angry, offended tone got to be too much

There's a bit where he asks them about the racism thing and they're just like, yeah we're not racists but we don't see the point in rising to some stupid blog

ancient industrial scene personal beef reheats masquerading as anti-nazi activism whenever some tiresome n :S

To have waded thru the various ancient industrial scene personal beef reheats masquerading as anti-nazi activism whenever some tiresome neofolk acts play slimelight or whateverr. :S