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And considering the career Alan Moulder has had since these days I'm surprised they haven't had more of a legacy - incedentally did you know that the reason Toni Halliday joined Curve is because her and Moulder were an item, she heard him working on Dean's music in the cellar of their house and decided she wanted to sing on it. not sure Dean had a choice about it or not...!
When Garbage came out everyone touted them down as a watered down Curve, there was an obvious debt and definitely some thunder stolen but despite the former's success at the time they haven't had a lasting recognition of how great they were. Curve just didn't have those one or two tunes that allowed them to properly cross over, especially with the 'gothy' seachange that they did on Cuckoo, things got very dark at a time when they possibly should have been following a poppier route. And of course by the time britpop kicked in they had missed the boat somewhat.

Which is funny really as I always thought of them as like MBV, but with tunes...!

they got painted with the "contrived" brush, because Toni Halliday had had a failed attempt at a (pop?) singing career, while Dean Garcia was a session musician and bassist for Eurythmics.

Both NME and Melody Maker jumped all over the fact that 1) they'd come from "commercial" music backgrounds; 2) they'd tried very hard to hide their identities with their early EPs, as though in tacit acknowledgement of the fact that their former commercial careers irredeemably compromised their "artistic" endeavours; and 3) they were releasing what came be called "shoegaze"-like music at a time when "shoegaze"-type music was beginning to be hyped in the music press (i.e. they were opportunistic).

All of that dogged their early reception, dealing a significant blow to their "indie credibility" amongst those for whom such cred matters, and given that they were never going to be pop mega-stars, they really didn't stand a chance — despite the fact that their first 3 EPs are unbeaten slices of noise-pop perfection.

but I think the post-Come Clean albums suffered for lack of a real stand-out hit (Head Above Water arguably notwithstanding), which gave them little hope of capturing new listeners.

is one of the greatest tracks ever made.

And they were phenomenal live.

Coast Is Clear is, for my money, their signature tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1RfhJzqUtw

...of summarising their early career. I leave the thread satisfied.

it warped my fragile little mind. Played it non-stop for about a week. And yes they were a brilliant live band.

:)

Gutted I never got to see them live.

Was seeing them live around the time of Cuckoo. Not that hot. Their recorded output on the other hand was terrific.

They were also ahead of the game in using the internet to keep their fanbase up to date with new material (through their own website).

Cheating by including compilations here (and excluding Radio Sessions and Way Of Curve)...

One of those bands whose single/ep compilations are arguably better than their albums.

So that'll always be tops for me.

Cuckoo > Doppelganger > Come Clean > Pubic Fruit > Gift > Open Day at the Hate Fest > New Adventures

Yeah, they were really good- along with Cranes and Cocteau Twins one of the best Goth-tinged shoegazery female fronted bands of the time.

I remember being somewhat disappointed when I bought Doppelganger - it didn't live up to the EP's, which are some of the best EP's ever made. It came out at the same time as Ride's Going Blank Again, which overshadowed it for me but also wasn't present in the end of year lists that year. I hear a lot of Curve in the stuff by the Alan Moulder-produced 2:54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGH7bKlABIc&feature=related

Curve are simply one of the best bands ever. I love almost every song they've ever made. And they have a LOT of hidden gems.

I like also Toni Halliday' solo project, Chatelaine. Also her collaborations with other artists (Leftfield, The Future Sound of London, Recoil, Acid Android, Paul van Dyk etc) are superb.

"Why Aren't They More Popular?"

Probably because they were too aggressive or odd for mainstream. But songs like the super-catchy "Fait Accompli" or "Gift" deserved to be huge hits. The theory that another band (Garbage) stole their success is false. Curve would have the same success with or without Garbage.

I'm also a big fan of Garbage. I discovered Curve because Garbage were compared with them.

PS: I listened to Curve when I found by "accident" this topic...

"Yet one thing puzzled me as years passed by. That the pop music mainstream did not include them in their radio canon is logical and understandable (though many of their songs could fit that role more than splendidly). But the fact this bands absence in all the indie year end lists, best of decade picks, and even list of honorable mentions, in both print and online mags large and small of the 90's and 00's, bothered me to no end. I've encountered no mention of them even among the diverse online music communities I've came across, something that really surprised me as I thought more than a few might have kept their memories."

You're right It's very sad that they seem to be completely ignored from every top, list, etc.

Debbie Smith is currently playing in several bands
Blindness, The Nuns (A Monks Tribute band and The London Dirthole Co.)

Dean has a band with his kids (Rose & harry) called Spc Eco.

I can highly recommend Blindness, The Nuns and Spc Eco. All play gigs on a fairly regular basis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0heeracP32M

I like a lot the little rap sections performed by Toni.

As any schoolboy knows, history is written by the winners. Well the winners of 90s alternative guitar music were US grunge and UK britpop acts.

Consequently the history of this period has been revised and the only music that is praised and appraised are the prominent bands of these genres and any earlier bands who influenced those bands.

So the Manchester bands are still generally highly regarded because they were part of a lineage that resulted in Oasis but loads of other bands are ignored even if they were critically lauded or even commercially successful (relative to the period, not by the commercial standards of britpop).

So loads of bands that people were dancing along to alongside Supersonic and Boys and Girls in indie discos in the mid 90s are now either forgotton entirely or simply sneered at.

Was the second best moment of my life.

(Seeing Revolution by Spacemen 3 was the first.)

was regularly voted hottest/ sexiest female in the nme/ melody maker/ sounds polls around the time though, they did seem to drop from popular opinion very quickly

once you've tasted perfection, anything that falls short is going to disappoint somewhat, no matter how brilliant it is.

Did NME and Melody Maker had that much clout during that time? It's hard to imagine how two magazines can singularly alter an up and coming band's future trajectory simply based on initial impressions in a few months....

In other words, the fact that Curve started out as a shoegaze act, while helping them initially, turned out to be a massive liability later on?

Got to keep in mind the historical context too. The monthlies served as kind of round ups, highlighting what stood out from the weeklies. No blogs/forums for 'genuine music fans' to connect, air their opinions etc. and really what possibilities for online publication/communication existed at the time were really only 'early adopter' stuff.

On the commercial media side, we're talking pre-Nirvana (just) and 'alternative' music didn't have as much in the way of marketability as it developed over the 90s.

And MM/NME did have significant (though hardly total) influence over a band's 'indie' profile.

Just another shoutout for this superlative song, here's a more stripped down, acoustic version of the radio sessions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BaXyk6dDw

Where despite the lack of the full frontal noise production, a more heartfelt presence emerges

In memoriam

when I was younger I went through a huge Curve / Slowdive / Lush / Catherine Wheel / Bailter Space phase, and Doppelganger is still one of my all time favourites. Those shoegaze bands had an incredible EP output.

Well said OP, they don't get anywhere near the recognition they deserve.

totally agree, I remember the entire thing, if you were found to be lacking by either you were fucked and curve and many other bands suffered from that. Now it's much harder to polarize that level of opinion because there are a thousand more sources of opinion.

the best thing about the Horror Head EP is 'Falling Free'.

Fucking amazing song. Love playing it at really high volume while driving, window down, at 100km/h along the freeway.

I love this song.

just posted it on our facebook to draw people to this thread, to lure people toward the band.

Someone just posted their cover of I Feel Love on Facebook. Amazing. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1215A4BAB450D762

It's more like 22th Anniversary. Curve formed in 1990:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curve_(band)
http://curve-online.co.uk/faq/02.php

and their debut album Doppelgänger

Black Delilah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_o-1iqlVs4
Paul van Dyk - Words (Curved Headcase Remix): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvZQvVlytYc (reworked version by Curve; feat. Toni as vocalist)
Robbing Charity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtF4o-nYVUg
Rising (Headspace Remix): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXuUns3Mr1U
Coming Up Roses (Talvin Singh Remix): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBpBebtbVrQ

Plus a lot of rarities here (full preview available): http://curve.bandcamp.com/album/rare-and-unreleased

....remains one of the most beautiful,charismatic performers I ever saw live on stage. Despite Ten Little Girls being one of the greatest debut singles ever they seemed to burn fast and fade even faster. They certainly didn't sustain my interest at the time, the early to mid 90's was a bit bonkers, it was all about living for the moment and Curve were just that!

I have no idea what Dean Garcia is up to but I do recommend the Chatelaine album that Toni Halliday and Alan Moulder released a couple of years back, I only recently discovered it and it's a bit of a lost gem, here's the spotify link:-

spotify:artist:1OO953Fw6GemYNKH3qtySf

http://open.spotify.com/artist/1OO953Fw6GemYNKH3qtySf

Dean Garcia had a lot of projects. Just few of them: Headcase, SPC ECO, Morpheme, The Secret Meeting.

Along the years, Toni Halliday collaborated with artists like Recoil (Alan Wilder's project, ex-Depeche Mode member), The Future Sound of London, Leftfield, DJ? Acucrack, The Killers, Acid Android, Bias, Freaky Chakra etc. She was also part of a band Scylla in 1995.

From Chatelaine's only album "Take a Line For a Walk" (released in 2010), my favorite song is "Life Remains": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoH5GEFDgg4
Very beautiful!

Here are some collaborations of Toni Halliday with various artists. I love all these songs:

Leftfield - Original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILVQpqmH7U (Toni appears in the music video. By the way, her real hair is blonde. Superb song from a legendary band.)

Recoil - Edge to Life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50AYo8fMsks (One of the best songs ever made. Perfection!)

Recoil - Bloodline: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pso33Uh6_JI (Like "Edge to Life", this song appeared on Recoil's album "Bloodline".)

DJ? Acucrack - So To Speak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGYkNBg9KYQ (Phenomenal song! Every second is magnificent.)

The Future Sound of London - Cerebral: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l9QJSy63T8 (From FSOL's "Lifefroms" album. Toni is credited on the album's booklet with "vocal texture".)

Freaky Chakra - Budded on Earth to Bloom in Heaven: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo7Nshfo9vc (Interesting electronic song.)

Acid Android - Faults: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeU8V4y_eCs (Powerful song. The guitar is really edgy. Toni appears in the video.)

Bias feat. Toni Halliday - Things That Dreams Are Made Of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm3zdMPNqko (The Human League cover. Better than original in my opinion.)

The Killers feat. Toni Halliday - A Great Big Sled: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-nse84xIpE (The first Christmas single released by The Killers. Toni sings near the end of the song.)

PS: It took me some time to write this post.

cheers :)

These songs deserve to be more known.

In 1995, a year after the first, temporary dissolution of Curve, Halliday formed the band Scylla with Ricky Barber, Lindy Pocock, Fiona Lynsky and Julian Bown. The group toured small clubs in the summer of 1995. Scylla's only recording to have been officially released is the song "Helen's Face", which can be found on the soundtrack album for the film Showgirls. Another Scylla song, "Get A Helmet", can be heard in the Gregg Araki film Nowhere. Scylla recorded a 12-track demo with both Alan Moulder and Flood producing, but no album was released. A poor-quality bootleg of these demo tracks can be found on the internet.

(DiS ate my link in the previous post)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVcXl1ih8FQ

Even though the style is similar. I remember hunting down ruby trax just for this song.

"Acid Android - Faults: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeU8V4y_eCs (Powerful song. The guitar is really edgy. Toni appears in the video.)"

You must be mistaken. I could not locate Toni anywhere in this video. Perhaps you were imagining? ;)

It also occurred to me that before Chatelaine's promo photos on Facebook 2 years ago, there was literally no photos or videos available anywhere of Toni and Dean after their Come Clean tour in 1998. We basically have no idea what they looked like between c.1999 to 2010 or so. That still blows my mind.

Some screenshots:
http://i.imgur.com/VfQJf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BuTqB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wcPPD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wfMYF.jpg

She was 39 years old in 2003 when that single was released.

Ten Little Girls sounded like nothing else when I first heard it, a heady mix of shoegaze, goth, electronica, hip-hop...but they never really matched it, it seemed to be a case of diminishing returns.

Sorry but I don't agree. Everything they released after "Ten Little Girls" was better. For example "Fait Accompli". That song is on a different league.

Also the production of "Ten Little Girls" is dated. The vocals sound very muffled. I heard that Curve recorded the Blindfold EP with very few money.

I agree that they produced excellent EPs but Doppelganger got mauled at the time for basically being one song repeated for almost all the album with only a slower one at the end. The singles were excellent as stand-alone songs - Horror Head, Fait Accompli are as good singles as you'll ever here. But they lacked the same level radio-bomb hit singles to propel them on Cuckoo...and then Garbage hijacked their career with excellently crafted pop songs that embedded themselves into radio playlists throughout the britpop years.
That said I have no idea how Hell Above The Water didn't get the spotlight back on Curve: they must at least have made some money for the console game tie-in.
Interestingly Garbage had a stellar pop career for about three albums and then imploded and they have struggled since to re-ignite public interest - I'm sure they released a comeback album recently to very little fanfare. Curve are still talked about reverently and cited as influences by a whole raft of bands...

Shoegaze was a dirty word from Grunge onwards and through the britpop years - I'm fairly sure Oasis demanding that Creation records drop Slowdive as part of their contract negotiations was just a rumour but it gives an idea as to how that scene was viewed as the 90s progressed. The music press found that slating 'the scene that celebrates itself' bands was as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

...I love you

"Interestingly Garbage had a stellar pop career for about three albums and then imploded and they have struggled since to re-ignite public interest - I'm sure they released a comeback album recently to very little fanfare."

Garbage went on hiatus after their 4th album released in 2005. They released a best of in 2007. They reunited in 2010 and made their excellent 5th album which was released in May 2012.

You said "very little fanfare"; I'm afraid you exaggerate it. It's less buzz than before because they're now independent and they had a 7 years break. Garbage have now their own label and full control about their music, tours, merchandise. One of their new songs ("Control") appeared on a Spiderman game trailer. They sold over 200000 albums so far and played over 50 gigs (and more to come).

Also I've seen Garbage live recently and they're fantastic. Their popularity is lower than before but they still have many fans. The "public interest" is fickle as always.

"Curve are still talked about reverently and cited as influences by a whole raft of bands..."

By who? Only the real fans still talk/care about Curve. I've seem more references to Garbage than Curve. Curve also don't appear in any top or something like that. You don't hear their music on the radio at all. Curve are truly an underground band now.

Really?

Since 1991 until 1994 Curve had 3 major releases: Pubic Fruit (compilation of EPs), Doppelganger and Cuckoo. Garbage released their debut in 1995. Now, let's assume that Garbage stole Curve's career even if that's not true. Even in this case Curve had FOUR years to build a successful career. In 1994 Curve's popularity was still pretty low. So, it's Garbage's fault that Curve missed the opportunity? Curve would be unsuccessful anyway.

Now let's assume that Garbage never existed. I bet that Curve would have the same bad luck with their career. So, the bitching against other different band (Garbage) needs to stop.

Garbage didn't steal anything. They were inspired by different artists (The Pretenders, MBV, Curve, The Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, Roxy Music, The Clash etc) exactly like any other band is inspired by older bands. Curve were also inspired by MBV (esp. "Soon"), JAMC and other noisy bands. That mix of dance rhythms, shoegaze and electronic was probably created first by MBV on their "Soon" masterpiece.

What to see Garbage's vocalist (Shirley Manson) opinion about Curve? See this: http://i.imgur.com/fHV17.jpg

The similarities in the snare intro to
MBV Only Shallow (1991)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf8j1bUgwJ8
Curve Superblaster (1993)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh25cWav6Xs
Garbage Supervixen (1995)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-9DiUL9HA8

Some Moulder in there I guess but also perhaps a little pilfering by Garbage?

That snare intro is quite simple. I don't think that MBV invented the wheel and nobody else is allowed to use it. What if for example the inventors of Amen Break asked for money for every artist that used it?

If that intro works for all these 3 songs, why not use it? Is not that Curve & Garbage sampled the intro; they actually played it and modified it before. The similarities are not 100%.

I've heard before some songs that had the drums part from The Stone Roses - "I Am the Resurrection" (the first part) and Yeah Yeah Yeahs - "Gold Lion". Probably because they're damn simple.

Someone had the nostalgia, and gall, to do a cover of Horror Head, this year, just this past month:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-pbIz8kTh0

By the band Mint Jelup, a couple who grew up with Curve and trying to do homage to them.

And you know what? They've more than done that. They've created an almost alternate reality version if Curve were debut today instead twenty years ago and under the aegis of the Chillwave movement. A truly breathtaking cover, almost on par with the original.

Maybe Curve is not quite so dead after all....

In alternative music circles, Pitchfork and to a lesser extent still NME can definitely fuck up a bands reputation.