- Artists:
- Doves »
- Label:
- Heavenly »
Speaking around the release of their stunning fourth album in 2009, Doves' Jimi Goodwin considered the role that place and environment have played in their records to date. He decided that lead single 'Kingdom of Rust', with it’s brooding, smokestack echo and chugging blacktop rhythm is ‘a bit of a road trip… it’s about going to see if the place where you grew up is still the same or going back to find someone or something you left behind. It’s about that trepidation of not being sure what you’re going to find’. This theme resurfaced several times on the record, until it felt like a collection of songs fully and intentionally embracing the traditions of the road narrative. It was an album that understood the importance in moving to understand what you’ve just left behind with songs played out on rain-whipped conveyor belt landscapes that act as vicious backdrops to existential meanderings into pasts and futures where the only guarantee amongst the faltering landscape is that summer will always fade to winter, and winter will gradually die out to spring.
In naming this collection The Places Between, it almost feels like Doves would be happy to place their entire career within this thematic milieu, a reiteration of the central road narrative concept that destinations are a relatively insignificant device whose actual purpose lies in framing the journey, and it is only through movement and travel that fixed environments and situations can be explained. Indeed it’s hard to find an interview with Doves where the themes of place and space aren’t investigated or touched upon, and despite the fact that being a ‘Manchester band’ means that they’re legally required to regularly ruminate on their surroundings, you feel that these are ideas they actively seek to explore as much as being themes that are thrust upon them. Yet understandably the band aren’t entirely sure if they’re a band from Manchester that are interested in space, place and environment or a band that are interested in space, place and environment because they’re from Manchester, Goodwin saying that ‘coming up you wonder "Do you shape your environment or does your environment shape you?" And of course, collectively, you shape your environment… We could have come from Utoxeter but we didn’t did we? It’s fucking hard to answer’. Just to emphasise the point, at the time of writing, today’s Observer features an interview with the band set around their relationship with the Jodrell Bank observatory, Andy Williams saying that ‘every time we make a new record, and we’re thinking about the track order, I always drive out here at night. Just driving around the lanes, trying out different track orders’.
In turn, The Places Between feels like it exists and is shaped by an equally specific environment, this time being the media-driven public space. Someone who had no specific knowledge of the band (who could be called Pigeons for all they knew) would still find themselves recognising 90 per cent of the tracks on the album, so ingrained have 'Black and White Town', 'Pounding' et al become in the public consciousness over the last decade. This has the effect of making everything feel pretty conservative and obvious, the single-centric tracklisting coming on like the best known of Doves instead of the actual best of Doves, so it’s mostly moot for anyone with even a passing interest in the band. (Although it should be said that it also comes in a two disc version with b-sides and rarities, but only the single disc was made available for review.) Ultimately it doesn’t connect as an album in its own right and will only push you quickly back towards the four previous records. Still, you can still completely understand its existence by viewing it as an important marker for the band, a break in the constant movement of the journey to look back over the actions of the past and equally, a chance to weigh up the possibilities of the future.
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Doves
strange review
no real mention of what the band sounds like. also, does a "best of" really have to connect as an album -- i'd assume that most people buying this won't have the previous four albums and so will want an intoduction to their sound more than a flowing album.
Pointless second paragraph
”Yet understandably the band aren’t entirely sure if they’re a band from Manchester that are interested in space, place and environment or a band that are interested in space, place and environment because they’re from Manchester, Goodwin saying that ‘coming up you wonder ‘Do you shape your environment or does your environment shape you?’ And of course, collectively, you shape your environment…”
Um ok. Just tell me is Black and White Town on there??
bloody boring band
spot on review.
Particularly if you're reviewing it as a single disc
rather than the second 'rarities' one. Not even a mention of Andalucia on the main CD... you'd have thought that as the only new track on that disc it would warrant noting, no?
ok, well..
'Um ok. Just tell me is Black and White Town on there??' and 'no real mention of what the band sounds like'.
if you're looking for reviews that tell you what the track listing is with no attempt (whether i manage it is up for debate)to get a bit deeper into the ethos of the band, then i'd just jump to wikipedia. and if you really want to know what the band 'sound like' you should go read the review on the bbc ...
'Fan of summery stadium pop? Catch the Sun. Fancy a spot of epic gospel? Caught by the River. Enjoy feeling like you’re having your face melodically blow-torched? Jetstream'
'ahh..summery stadium pop. you know what, that's a new take on doves i must say. maybe i'll go back and listen to them again with this in mind...mmm, yes....now you say it...this is quite summery...it's also quite poppy...and blow me, this wouldn't feel that out of place in a stadium environment. good work that man.'
i think the most interesting thing about doves is their relationship with environment and its use in their work so i tried to go with that schtick. (if it works or not is entirely up for debate).
but it just plain doesn't work as a single disc best-of...and if you're new to the band, you can get two of the albums for the same price as the best-of.
On play.com for example, if you get lost souls and the last broadcast together, you will be paying just 107 english pence more than if you just get the single disc best-of. what's the fucking point unless you're a glove-box music fan who wants all those songs they've heard on sky sports or hollyoaks montages collected on one handy disc.
interesting to note that this has come out as guy garvey has been talking recently about the sacred nature of albums and how cherry picking songs takes away from the time and effort that goes into their creation and devalues the whole process. and it's not like they're the fall where a best-of really might be a helpful place to start for a completely new listener, it's only four records.
like i say, it's fair enough for the band to do it...take stock of thieir career so far...have a tour...think about the future etc...but there's no real value in the single disc for anyone else.
but you are right about the new single... i'll admit, maybe i should've kept in what i said about it, but i wanted it to be quite balanced and end on a positive note for a band that i like and admire, and that would've just been kicking them when they were down because it's a really bland backwards-step of a single that sounds like an eight year old b-side compared to what they've done relatively recently on K.O.R.
Pretty poor review
Not too much about the music in there.
Quite a confusing and ultimately pointless read really.
The review comments
"...and if you're new to the band, you can get two of the albums for the same price as the best-of."
You could probably write that FOR ANY band that releases a Best Of. Totally silly and unhelpful comment. Of course, if you wait a few weeks you will probably be able to get the Best Of cheaper too.
But what has that to do with a review of the album? A Best Of isn't aimed at people who own/want the other albums.
you're right
maybe the world did need another review talking about how 'black and white town' has a motown-esque drum beat.
if you think i'm talking cobblers then fair enough, i'm not saying this is an AMAZING, infallible review... but i don't buy this idea, and what seems to be the main criticism, that what this best-of review really needed was descriptions of the music.
doves write grand, soaring epics...for example..a song called 'snowdon'. it's big and swoopy and epic.
...there, that'll do.
Any passing mention of the music would have done
Big descriptions weren't really necessary.
Don't get me wrong, I find many Best Of albums pointless, but despite owning all their albums I clicked on the review to see at least what music is considered their "best".
I'm none the wiser. And had to go to another website to at least get an idea of what is on the album.
You obviously thought the idea of a Best Of was a waste of time before you even started, so it seems pointless you even trying to review it.
'..."...and if you're new to the band, you can get two of the albums for the same price as the best-of." You could probably write that FOR ANY band that releases a Best Of. Totally silly and unhelpful comment.'
it's not about price, it's about the level of material. those two albums will constitute 50% of their entire back catalogue. For other bands, this will not be the case. it's like the libertines releasing a best-of when they only have two albums. i'd suggest that maybe just getting the albums would be the better option there too.
'But what has that to do with a review of the album? A Best Of isn't aimed at people who own/WANT the other albums.'
you're saying i should aim this review at people who don't want to buy one of the four albums? if we're cool with the idea that someone would rather buy this than an actual album. if they were hanging around trying to decide whether to get a doves record or not, and then their eyes lit up because they could just get the one record with all the killer and no filler. if that's what you're saying i should've been directing my review towards...well...fuck that basically. what's the point? In that case, they don't need a review they need an advert in a magazine.
In fairness mate
You haven't "reviewed" anything. That's the point that I and a few others have made.
You have written an article on a band.
'You obviously thought the idea of a Best Of was a waste of time before you even started, so it seems pointless you even trying to review it.'
maybe i do think best-ofs like this are pointless. it's a valid line of inquiry as much as saying 'oh, aces look..a best-of'. it's all relevant criticism.
'despite owning all their albums I clicked on the review to see at least what music is considered their "best". I'm none the wiser. And had to go to another website to at least get an idea of what is on the album.'
that sir, simply baffles me. i don't think we'll get anywhere here...i'd want to read a review to make me see the music in a different light, not to compare ideas of bestest tracks or find out the tracklisting. i guess we just see the purpose of a review differently.
and i'll still contest that by the fact that the review implies that i think K.O.R is their greatest achievement without saying it explicitly. maybe instead of 'stunning' i should've said 'best album to date'.
Well as you say
"i'd want to read a review to make me see the music in a different light..."
You barely mention ANY MUSIC in the article. There in no review of any kind happening in your piece, whether you accept that or not.
I appreciate it is easy for me to criticise, but you actually say more incisive points in your replys to me than you do in the article.
I'll defend you michael!
It's a best of, for christ sake. Anyone that reads a best of review to know what the music is like is a fucking tard, given that its obviously going to be far less cohesive and 'an album' as a whole as a proper album. So if you want to know what the music is like, read a review of their actual albums. If you know what the musics like, why the hell do you want someone else to tell you what its like? I thought review was quite interesting, if not 'a review' in the traditional sense. There.
I find your point of view a bit confusing tbh
You say - "So if you want to know what the music is like, read a review of their actual albums. If you know what the musics like, why the hell do you want someone else to tell you what its like?"
Well that covers all bases. So why bother reading any "review" of a Best Of. Why write one?
I agree with your last point howveer, not 'a review' in the traditional sense.
Or at all.
'You barely mention ANY MUSIC in the article. There in no review of any kind happening in your piece, whether you accept that or not.'
I think it's there (still up for grabs how well i've done it, mind), just not in the typical....'well...there's this song, which is a bit like this, and quite good...and then there's this other one that's alright'
i saw best-of so i thought...'hmm....perhaps it'd be interesting and apt to assess what i feel is the main theme that has interested the band and occupied their music for their entire career'....y'know....all the crap i talk about space and place and environment.
and then maybe someone could then go....'hey....this wanker is right...THERE IS a lot in their music about environment and place...i hadn't really seen it like that before. that's sort of an interesting idea to think about' (again, debatable how well i actually did that. i think there is definite room for improvement if i wrote it all over again)
that was the aim and, in my opinion, an equally valid observation of the 'MUSIC' being made. but if you see otherwise, what can you do...we all see it differently i guess.
Well, we'll agree to disagree.
I've made my points.
Like I say, it is easy for me to sit here and criticise, you are the one who puts up his work on public show. I respect that.
'Like I say, it is easy for me to sit here and criticise, you are the one who puts up his work on public show. I respect that.'
i should be saying the same thing to Doves really....EH-OH!
worst doves review ever!
i dont care which number you have put in a review (who cares? there will be loads of 4-5 star reviews and an obvious top 5) but show some respect, man.
knowledge is the thing you need if youre writing about a band.
DISsapointing.
you're so right
'knowledge is the thing you need if you're writing about a band'
that's Robert Christgau isn't it?
having said that,
I also agree with Elfrim.
Life as a schizophrenic is good.
I like this review, and think it's got a lot of point
Certainly more interesting to read than descriptions of all their big songs AGAIN.
For what it's worth...
I thought this was quite a good angle... I'm sure a lot of people reading the piece would be familiar with the Doves back-catalogue (if you're new to the band, he's right, just look elsewhere for album-specific reviews) and I won't be buying the 'Best Of' but I found the 'road narrative' and 'space and place' musing interesting. It made me think, actually maybe Doves are more of a THINKING band than I gave them credit for and not just 'switch pedal to EPIC and knock out a single' chumps. This piece also made me consider picking up 'KOR' which I hadn't bothered investigating after being disappointed with album 3. Job done, Mr Reviewer.
the review, and the way that it addresses the subject is spot on,
and is exactly the kind of thing that DiS should be doing if it wants to set itself apart from the hundreds of other identikit music review sites.
I'd agree with this.
Much more interesting than a straightfoward track by track description.
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