S-Club Bigots?
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- t.A.T.u »
S-Club 7 vs. t.A.T.U.
I was watching Saturday morning TV yesterday, and there was some sort of ‘contest’ going on for the best new single—as judged by S-Club members Hannah, Bradley, and Jo. Inane, harmless… But one of the videos being judged was for the new single by t.A.T.U.
Jo screwed up her face and said, "The video looks quite cool… but I just don’t agree with it… Naw, naw."
So what’s more disturbing?:
-sending a message to your nation’s youth that says girls kissing girls is okay (just watch out for any old men gleefully rubbing their legs nearby);
-or sending them a message that there’s something wrong with girls who do that. That they are distasteful and disgusting and something that clean, decent people don’t like.
My own reservations about the biz people behind t.A.T.U. aside (sexualisation of children, exploitation of their sexuality to get money for someone else etc.), it seemed pretty clear from Jo’s response that it wasn’t THOSE issues she didn’t agree with. It was that they, two girls, make out on stage. S-Club’s ‘values’ of wholesome, shiny clean kids who sing and dance with happy abandon are the epitome of what British culture would like their youth to be. Sure, their tunes are catchy, but the banality of theme and constant reinforcement of what’s proper, and right, for a child to be is shaping the future of this country. Look at how S-Club depends on 12-year olds for their record sales. They are communicating with these kids, making them want to be like S-Club.
And there lies my issue: I don’t care what Jo thinks about homosexuality. I don’t even like t.A.T.U. But Jo is the idol of many a young girl in Britain, and when she’s on TV, expressing that kind of attitude towards girls kissing each other, she informs the opinions of at least a few hundred thousand little girls. And when they grow up to become solicitors, barristers, company managers, that attitude will still be with them. Doesn’t that bother anyone?
I was watching Saturday morning TV yesterday, and there was some sort of ‘contest’ going on for the best new single—as judged by S-Club members Hannah, Bradley, and Jo. Inane, harmless… But one of the videos being judged was for the new single by t.A.T.U.
Jo screwed up her face and said, "The video looks quite cool… but I just don’t agree with it… Naw, naw."
So what’s more disturbing?:
-sending a message to your nation’s youth that says girls kissing girls is okay (just watch out for any old men gleefully rubbing their legs nearby);
-or sending them a message that there’s something wrong with girls who do that. That they are distasteful and disgusting and something that clean, decent people don’t like.
My own reservations about the biz people behind t.A.T.U. aside (sexualisation of children, exploitation of their sexuality to get money for someone else etc.), it seemed pretty clear from Jo’s response that it wasn’t THOSE issues she didn’t agree with. It was that they, two girls, make out on stage. S-Club’s ‘values’ of wholesome, shiny clean kids who sing and dance with happy abandon are the epitome of what British culture would like their youth to be. Sure, their tunes are catchy, but the banality of theme and constant reinforcement of what’s proper, and right, for a child to be is shaping the future of this country. Look at how S-Club depends on 12-year olds for their record sales. They are communicating with these kids, making them want to be like S-Club.
And there lies my issue: I don’t care what Jo thinks about homosexuality. I don’t even like t.A.T.U. But Jo is the idol of many a young girl in Britain, and when she’s on TV, expressing that kind of attitude towards girls kissing each other, she informs the opinions of at least a few hundred thousand little girls. And when they grow up to become solicitors, barristers, company managers, that attitude will still be with them. Doesn’t that bother anyone?
S Club 7
t.A.T.u
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S-Club Bigots?
spot on. it really highlights the level of homophobia in this country.
the people that have been most vocal against Tatu (ie The Sun & The Daily Mail) don't dislike them because they're being manipulated by evil-faced money-men. they aren't against them because they are dressed to tailor for for the 'ultimate male fantasy' (teenagers? check! school uniforms? check! lesbianism? check!). nor are they raising their voices in concern that they'll end up as washed-up, cocaine-addicted wrecks like many child stars before them.
no, people dislike Tatu primarily because they are lesbian, and because they dare to flaunt it to the rest of the world. It's as terrifying, disgusting and bigoted as that...
the people that have been most vocal against Tatu (ie The Sun & The Daily Mail) don't dislike them because they're being manipulated by evil-faced money-men. they aren't against them because they are dressed to tailor for for the 'ultimate male fantasy' (teenagers? check! school uniforms? check! lesbianism? check!). nor are they raising their voices in concern that they'll end up as washed-up, cocaine-addicted wrecks like many child stars before them.
no, people dislike Tatu primarily because they are lesbian, and because they dare to flaunt it to the rest of the world. It's as terrifying, disgusting and bigoted as that...
Re: S-Club Bigots?
thought i'd better add that i realise they might not actually be 'real' lesbians...
...but then Jack White isn't really a black bluesman from the 1950's who writes all his tunes on trains to Mississippi, and we don't attack him for pretending he is, do we?
...but then Jack White isn't really a black bluesman from the 1950's who writes all his tunes on trains to Mississippi, and we don't attack him for pretending he is, do we?
S-Club Bigots?
Yeah... the fact they (might be) gay certainly isn't distasteful. But can the same be said about the fact they use their sexuality as a sort of 'look at us' freak show to sell records? this kind of thing doesn't do much to combat homophobia, it just perpetuates the idea that it's something weird/illicit/curious for people to gawk at...
Re: S-Club Bigots?
Yeah, that's what I mean about my other various reservations about t.A.T.U. as a band and cultural phenomenon. I have plenty of problems with them for the very reasons you mentioned and others.
Adults see them as the sexual freak show, but I have a feeling kids just see them as girls who kiss each other with cool music. Having been a kid only recently myself, you don't generally pick up on the subtleties of that sort of thing. But blatant messages (e.g. 'that's gross and wrong') do get across to kids quite well.
Adults see them as the sexual freak show, but I have a feeling kids just see them as girls who kiss each other with cool music. Having been a kid only recently myself, you don't generally pick up on the subtleties of that sort of thing. But blatant messages (e.g. 'that's gross and wrong') do get across to kids quite well.
S-Club Bigots?
Do you think Rachel tried it on with the ginger tatu girl and she got turned down and then jo raped the other one. they filmed it. and now they're trying to end s.clubs career?
Could happen.
Could happen.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
I dont know, but...
isn't it also possible that Jo was referring to t.A.T.U. kissing onstage rather than to their sexuality? I think people have every right to have reservations about what is classed as entertainment (supposedly) for children...
I didn't see the programme, and i dont know the politics of any members of s club (although perhaps some are in favour of the decriminalisation of cannabis?), but i don't think jumping on possible interpretations of every comment as homophobic helps anyone...
In general though, the writer's probably right... how depressing... still, i'll take comfort in the hope that if that is what Jo meant, the chilren who idolise her probably didn't pick up on the subtleties anyway...
isn't it also possible that Jo was referring to t.A.T.U. kissing onstage rather than to their sexuality? I think people have every right to have reservations about what is classed as entertainment (supposedly) for children...
I didn't see the programme, and i dont know the politics of any members of s club (although perhaps some are in favour of the decriminalisation of cannabis?), but i don't think jumping on possible interpretations of every comment as homophobic helps anyone...
In general though, the writer's probably right... how depressing... still, i'll take comfort in the hope that if that is what Jo meant, the chilren who idolise her probably didn't pick up on the subtleties anyway...
Re: S-Club Bigots?
But if Jo can't bear to see two girls kissing onstage, then she is by definition referring to their sexuality... and as for the kissing itself... it's very hard to be judgemental and say that tATU are cynically doing it... because if they in ANY way are not (even if it's something that they did while fooling around and the management cynically told them to keep it up) then we're ALSO guilty of some mild prejudice... it shouldn't be headline worthy having two girls kissing on stage...
I'd love it if the presenter had asked a few follow up questions and got Jo to really drop herself in publicity shit... perhaps to have asked her something like ' do you think it's wrong for two girls to kiss, then, Jo?'... if nothing else, because I think she'd freak out.... however... that would only come as a result of a TV presenter having an opinion and a personality, which is fairly illegal these days, and the resulting negative press would be press, all the same, and myself, I'd really approve of S-Club fading of our televisions as soon as poss.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
"But if Jo can't bear to see two girls kissing onstage, then she is by definition referring to their sexuality"
Or maybe the suggestion was that she didn't think they should be kissing on stage regardless of what sex they were?
Or maybe the suggestion was that she didn't think they should be kissing on stage regardless of what sex they were?
Re: S-Club Bigots?
Indeed. I mean, we'd be just as offended is S.Club had a group orgie onstage. *shudder*
The problem is tATu have become a spectale and its superseeded any other hype campaign going, with just a little kiss. Whether thats marketing genius or exploitation, probably both, but it reamins to be seen and properly deconstructed.
The problem is tATu have become a spectale and its superseeded any other hype campaign going, with just a little kiss. Whether thats marketing genius or exploitation, probably both, but it reamins to be seen and properly deconstructed.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
So why doesn't it hit the headlines when marilyn Manson snogs Twiggy Ramirez or when um... well i'm sure two girls from a rock band have snogged before.. maybe.. elastica?!! ..L7...?! ..why is it only pop acts that make the headlines nowadays?
Re: S-Club Bigots?
Surely the ultimate example of exploitation in the industry is s-club juniors I mean how sick is that??
Re: S-Club Bigots?
Oh, I don't know...Jack White was named as having the biggest cock in rock n roll by the Sun...
S-Club Bigots?
maybe she was talking about tatu pretty much endorsing peadophilia?
Re: S-Club Bigots?
Hmm, I can't see how they're being exploited per sé. I do find it worrying that 12 year olds are being given songs about romantic love by their writing team, potentially opening them up to sexual objectification by paedophiles.
I always thought Jo from S Club was a lesbian anyway. Perhaps she was merely upset that tATu's on-stage cavorting, blatantly aimed at titillating men, had a negative impact on actual lesbians.
I always thought Jo from S Club was a lesbian anyway. Perhaps she was merely upset that tATu's on-stage cavorting, blatantly aimed at titillating men, had a negative impact on actual lesbians.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
aren't they 18?
S-Club Bigots?
Basically you are acting like a 10 year old trying to make a big serious issue about homophobia bla bla bla, when theres really not much of an issue there. As she didnt explain what she meant you cant presume anything, or you'll be had for slander.
S-Club Bigots?
i dont know how old s club fans are but i do know that when i was 7 or whatever it WAS considered weird to be a lesbian..to be honest i never really understood what it was...but then i goddam grew up and realised that being a lesbian wasnt WRONG ...these s club fans arnt gonna be permanently affected by hearing jo say that she found it a bit uncomfortable watching to girls touch eachother up on day time tv. they ..like me will grow up and get a better perspective.to be honest im being a hypocrite cos i dont like that video being shown during day time either...woman on woman or man on woman..that kind of video is a bit heavy for kiddy tv.i think.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
apparently the video for all the things she said was made when they were 13/14 though
Re: S-Club Bigots?
I got the impression that were they not faux-lesbian (and faux-schoolgirls, and I'm starting to doubt they're actually Russian) no-one would give a toss, from Trevor Horn downwards. The Mail may hate them, but the Sport and Star can't get enough, and there your line is drawn. As for the article, isn't it also a very reactionary thing to say that because someone out of a pop band had reservations about their act then every girl watching will immediately form lifelong prejudices? If that was the quote word for word, then you can read other things into it - after all, she's in a band who have just got a lot of negative publicity because their PR told them to walk out of an interview, so she might have personal issues there at the moment - especially if you're on TV with millions (actually, it's the Saturday Show, isn't it? OK, hundreds) of kids hanging off your every opinion. No-one's going to have refused to buy the S Club single because one of them might have made a vaguely homophobic reference.
Actually, I'm against TATU because their music is shit.
Actually, I'm against TATU because their music is shit.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
All this PC moaning drives me mad!! They are two fresh-faced young girls groping each other and snogging each other, with breasts clearly shown through their tops on billboard adverts for their live shows! The only reason it's legal is because they are actually 18 - even if they both look 15!
For fucks sake, you're not a fucking homophobe if you think there's maybe something wrong with that.
Their manager was arrested recently in Moscow square for filming hundreds of young girls re-enacting the scene from their first video - girls as young as fucking 7!!!
It's fucking paedophilia is what it is.
For fucks sake, you're not a fucking homophobe if you think there's maybe something wrong with that.
Their manager was arrested recently in Moscow square for filming hundreds of young girls re-enacting the scene from their first video - girls as young as fucking 7!!!
It's fucking paedophilia is what it is.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
don't we??!
Re: S-Club Bigots?
well... the NME doesn't, at least. i think he's a bit of a prat, personally...
S-Club Bigots?
Tatu, eh? Actually, who cares. But equating Jack White with those talentless Russians is a bit steep.
I mean, I don't think Jack professes to be black or 60-years-old. And musical influences from previous generations is how ALL modern music is born. There is nothing new.
And I couldn't really care less if Tatu are lesbian, heterosexual, schoolgirls or even Russian.
Really, pop and rock stars are always making shit up, so just let 'em get on with it and see them crash and burn.
I mean, I don't think Jack professes to be black or 60-years-old. And musical influences from previous generations is how ALL modern music is born. There is nothing new.
And I couldn't really care less if Tatu are lesbian, heterosexual, schoolgirls or even Russian.
Really, pop and rock stars are always making shit up, so just let 'em get on with it and see them crash and burn.
Mountains and Molehills
It'a all making a mountain out of a molehill. Firstly, as we all know, Homophobia is Gay. But pretending to be gay is even worse, because Tatu are just tourists in other people's sexuality. Being gay or lesbian isn't easy for everyone, and seeing a bunch of 17 year old Russian schoolgirl popstars pretending to be lezzers is simply insulting and exploitative of the audience.
I mean, ultimately, so what if someone from S-Club said they didn't like it. So what? Get perspective.
I mean, ultimately, so what if someone from S-Club said they didn't like it. So what? Get perspective.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
"Hmm, I can't see how they're being exploited per sé"
What, robbed of their childhood to line record company exec's pockets with green? Yes, they get paid for it but i would hazard a guess not as much as 'grown up' pop stars, hence the exploitation (kind of like child labour really). And is putting kids that young under the intense pressures of the music industry going to help them at all? Think the jury's still out
What, robbed of their childhood to line record company exec's pockets with green? Yes, they get paid for it but i would hazard a guess not as much as 'grown up' pop stars, hence the exploitation (kind of like child labour really). And is putting kids that young under the intense pressures of the music industry going to help them at all? Think the jury's still out
Re: S-Club Bigots?
Well I just want to fuck all of them! S_CLUB and TAtu, the bloody lot... Put them all in one place, pour on the petrol, add Simon high pants, thrown in a match and stand back - there they are all fucked!
Re: S-Club Bigots?
Well, after all the horror stories about child stars, I should hope their parents are very involved to ensure their education and emotional well being is catered for... they're certainly getting a better deal than kids who do paper rounds or work in the local McDonalds (which is probably their future vocation).
To an extent, we're all exploited. I dare say S Club 8 get plenty more pocket money than the average kid to compensate.
To an extent, we're all exploited. I dare say S Club 8 get plenty more pocket money than the average kid to compensate.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
coz 10 year olds typically make a big serious issue out
of homophobia. gay!
...it's not slander if its fair comment, and its fair
comment if they say something (stupidly or not) that
sounds like the thing you are accusing them of.
and who are you anyway - the S-club legal-team?
of homophobia. gay!
...it's not slander if its fair comment, and its fair
comment if they say something (stupidly or not) that
sounds like the thing you are accusing them of.
and who are you anyway - the S-club legal-team?
Re: Mountains and Molehills
Fair points about Tatu, but...
"I mean, ultimately, so what if someone from S-Club said they didn't like it. So what? Get perspective."
Erm...thats what the whole article is about you silly man.
"I mean, ultimately, so what if someone from S-Club said they didn't like it. So what? Get perspective."
Erm...thats what the whole article is about you silly man.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
Ahh, but Mat-- that's why I have multiple qualifiers in the article explaining that Jo's objection clearly wasn't to the exploitation of the girls themselves nor paedophilia inspired by the way their manager runs things. I think the sexualisation of children running rampant in the media, and perfectly exemplified by tatu, is disturbing and gross. But as probably the only person discussing this who actually SAW it, Jo's reaction made it well clear that she thought girls kissing girls was repugnant--not exploitation.
S-Club Bigots?
Bothers me.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
No, he was named as _BEING_ the biggest cock in rock n roll.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
bump.
Re: S-Club Bigots?
WTF?
After two years?
After two years?
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