The Tuesday DiScussion: should the Astoria be saved?

I've never really rated the Astoria as a decent venue and agree that KOKO is most definitely a decent replacement, and is just generally a lot better!

Right now it's a terrible venue it takes about an hour to leave and I'm sure it's one huge fire hazzard but I did go to my first proper gig there and have good memories of the place.

It's a perfect location for a venue, just the right size and it's got the history of shows and the G.A.Y night etc. They just need to completely redo it (like KOKO, which I agree is fantastic). I think moving all the venues to Camden is a very bad idea.

Although I have some amazing memories from there (likewise, first gigs etc) I haven't been there in time and they seem to charge stupid amounts for tickets there these days so allow it.

it's just a gig venue.

astoria is a really good venue. firstly, the sound is generally brilliant (broken social scene were immaculate and so crisp there) and it really does fill the place. secondly, its intimate, bands frequently jump the barriers to say hi or go the bars, and you're so close you probably could almost touch them. so what if its dark and dirty and dingy, its a very intimate location, more so than koko because the stage is low and so you feel you're looking right into the artists eyes. revamping it is a great idea, modernising it, but please keep the same shape and satge design inside, it makes for a great gig experience.

my final reasont o save it is more to do with me being a non londoner than anything else. Living outside london, I find it quite a trek to get to a lot of venuse. the astoria is one of the only venues where I can see decent music, and not have to spend 2 hours getting there. so save it! now!

needs to be saved, but if it is, then it needs an overhaul. the stairs where you exit are a fucking mindfield to get out of after a gig, especially to get to the cloakroom (which in itself takes about 20 minutes to get your coat back especially in winter) and the whole layout seems well backwards.
it still has the best sound in london, the best view too. the bar's a bit cramped, so they could open that out (perhaps bring the mixing desk forward?) but you can't see fuck all if you're at the bar anyway, especially behind that metal grating.
oh and "nice photoshop filter" on the main page. cut out = cop out.

National in Kilburn : (

It's always been my favourite venue and I'm about to move within walking distance of it so NO. I would be rather disappointed. It's had really great gigs and some of my favourite bands (DiS rated 10/10 bands) have all been confirmed under its roof. . . LCD Soundsystem, The Rapture. Hope Of The States, Arctic Monkeys.

i dont see why people care that much. its not like its the only venue in a small city, where its closure will ruin the music scene; the closure of the astoria will have pretty much no effect whatsoever on music in london.

it's just mean fiddler exercising their power

they are in the position where they don't need to pay sky high rents to put on gigs

all the gigs can be moved to camden or even further out to kentish town

the people will still go there because there is no alternative

NO ALTERNATIVE <- underline it

there will be nothing left of any worth in the city centre

yes camden's all well and good but it's not so easy for people who live in south london

poor transport links south of the river mean that people might have to miss the end of gigs in koko or the forum

but mean fiddler don't care. as long as they sold the ticket in the first place

Is a more serious loss, the Strokes and the Vines both played their first UK shows there (I think, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). It has lost its live music license (I think all the noise was annoying the neighbouring council estate residents while they smoked their crack or something?). It is small, smelly, grimy and the band has to walk through the crowd to get to the stage, in other words a traditional toilet-venue of the sort that are dying out these days. Who cares if some shitty London hole owned by a massive corporation intent on shafting music fans for every last peso turns its hand to shafting yuppies for crap clothes instead?

If it goes, where the hell will Cardiacs play every year?

I think Astoria is an institution as a building, not just as a rock venue. It should be protected from becoming a mall because of its historical and architectural relevance.

I have never really liked it much. Grubby. But I suppose it is one of only a couple of venues this size. It would be sad to see ANY venue in London go - if they could rip out the interior and make it a little more like Kings Cross' Scala - which is almost perfect as far as I am concerned - then it would be well worth it. Do the same to the, even worse, Forum as well; though that is literally around the corner from me so it always has a soft spot.

What about the Mean Fiddler venue, is that included??

Im pretty sure The Freebutt in Brighton has been re-open now for a few weeks.

Brightons real loss is the wonderful Hanbury Ballroom - which has been bought and being turned into a members only, cabaret-cocktail bar. Its a discrace.

It's a good location and a good size. It's important to have venues like this.

The Camden Palace isn't as good as the Astoria and certainly hasn't the location. Moreover there are clearly enough bands to justify both venues going as they both have bands every night.

Beyond those there's only the Forum and the Brixton Academy, both harder to get to.

It's not like they'd really benefit from it, and if health and safety dictates that it's unsafe that just one more incentive to turn it into shops

There are plenty of shortcomings which could be sorted out with an overhaul.

As for the comment above that "the closure of the astoria will have pretty much no effect whatsoever on music in london" - I disagree. Unless it's an awful, awful venue (and I think the Astoria's just mediocre) anywhere closing is a bad thing. How many bands play the Astoria every year? If it closes, there'll be more bands jostling for slots at the larger venues, and less choice of who you can see.

worst. sound. evar.

LOL

yeah, even worse than southampton guildhall.

they do show akira on the big screen occasionally though....

It is probably the worst venue of it's size in the country.

I appreciate that to watch certain shows there is not so bad but it is a health hazard and bands hate the place. It is only used because of it's history. I would be up for them redeveloping it but Mean Fiddler are obviously not willing to do that - especially whilst most gigs would transfer to the Forum which along with Hammersmith Palais & SBE are the other comparable venues for 2000 people.

So the real choice is keep it as it is or lose it altogether.

The facilites and dressing rooms are a disgrace, bands can't park there and loading in and out is very unsafe with a winch pulling very heavy equipment up which only has a 'seatbelt' hooked around to hold it on.

Due to the G.A.Y. night the bands and crew get virtually thrown out of the place within minutes.

Because of such a quick load out and the way load in is as detailed above gig goers are cheated out of the full production that bands could load into venues such as The Forum etc.

My two cents!

Look, choose. A hole in the ground, shops or a decent venue. There's enough horrible corporate consumer palaces about, a hole in the ground is only any good if someone is going to stick Blunt in it. If you Londoners let one venue disappear, then they'll all vanish - one by one. Have a read of what has happened in New York. And LA. Exactly the same will happen here. The owners will push the cost of venue leases sky high, allow them to be bought out by big nasty corporate bodies like Live Nation, run them into the ground and destroy them. Fight or fuck off.