Pete Doherty: The Shambolic Waster

Get well soon, Pete!

(sometimes I'm so clever I scare myself.)

Well written... but even frustrated and critical words are still column inches, which is what it all boils down to. while I don't think they have written any music that has soaked so far into popular culture that it will outlive them (much like the Manics), I think the Libertines really do BELIEVE in the romance of rock and roll, and that makes them relatively rare in this day and age of media/business savvy career musos, and perhaps that's why PD attracts the column inches... journos can see that he really does believe the hype, which makes him a rather tragic figure, worthy of sympathy.
This country is, and has always been permeated by a horrible snobbery... and people still seem to define themselves by who they are able to look up to and who they are able to look down on. While all around us can be found people who've lost the plot and descended into a spiral of addiction, and any person living on the street usually has a tragic story to tell... we are only interested in reading about it in the papers when it is someone 'famous' who has fallen from grace, so now instead of looking up to a 'celebrity', we can look down on them...

anyone would think hes the only musician who takes drugs the column inches he gets!!! they havent written an outstanding record yet either. so the appeal of him and his band is lost on me.

Amen


>"Clash tribute band steals Strokes' wardrobe"

you get a gold star for that.

And this is why Libertines fans make me laugh.

This article isn't an attack by "pompous muso twats", or however you decide to put it - it's a call to wake the fuck up and stop elevating this man such a level for basically being nothing but an utter mess of a human being.

No, I don't know his reasons for starting in the first place - frankly, I don't care. There are plenty of examples of talented musicians ending up complete burnouts because of their "leisure activities" to make anyone with half a brain stay away from that activity, no matter what Alan McGee or the back-slapping morons that make up the NME might say or hint at. DRUGS ARE NOT COOL. DRUGS ARE NOT ROCK AND ROLL.

And I'm not getting puritanical about drug use - do what the fuck you want with your own body - I just resent glorification and glamourisation of such utter, utter moronic behavior.

your a prick (i felt i had to respond)

i hate nme by the way for the coverage, and the fact thats the only reason your all slagging him off anyway

What is the point of this article?

I fucking hate The Libertines and the hysteria surrounding this berk as much as the next person who fucking hates The Libertines and the hysteria surrounding this berk, but do we REALLY need another discussion about how much we either hate or worship the man?

Pretty much how everyone feels Dom, fine article. But c'mon, cut the nonsense about Ollie Reed being remembered as nothing more than a drunk. He didn't waste his life at all.

no an mature opinion would be to say, "feh, it's not for me' Instead of taking a whole article to slag him off simply to outdo what ever NME said the week before

>i hate nme by the way for the coverage, and the fact thats the only reason your all slagging him off anyway

No it isn't.

And if you like their music (and I do), then it's in his best interest that people write articles suggesting that the soap opera needs to stop. Otherwise you won't be getting music from him in, say, five years' time, for reasons you don't want to think about.

*long live pete doherty i say*

I think the point is that he won't be living for much longer if he carries on like this...

I don't know much about the Libertines, but they have always reminded me a of later day Chaz and Dave...is that cool? hmm..

..other muscians such as Hendrix, Stones, Lou Reed may have all had drug 'issues' but surely they were content over style, and people heard of them because of their ability first not their addictions...

..and also, is any of it really real?

penith worth contributed.

S

The article came across as the work of an NME reject. Having seen Babyshambles at Newcastle last night I can say without any doubt that people love Pete Doherty, not because of the extended press coverage, but because he is a genuine star, grateful and courteous to his fans and a poet of the quality not seen in British music for a long, long time. The doubters are most definitely in denial. During the final song of Babyshamble's set last night, fans stormed the stage to mob Pete and it was impossible to ignore the sheer adoration that everyone present had for the man, he is a true rock'n'roll romantic. Of course, we all hope he gets clean, the drugs are not the fascination, but in a time when the music scene is awash with soulless posers, Pete is a breath of fresh air, good luck to him. Admittedly the tabloid "soap-opera" is utterly stupid, but since when was this Pete's fault? It is the press who are to blame.

I may be going against the grain here but I love this soap opera. Whatever happened to the sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll spirit? So many bands these days are (personality-wise) middle of the road, unexciting; coldplay or travis being the epitome of such. And yeah I like their music but any press about them is pretty dull. We don't have the same legends that they used to; where are our generations worth of Marc Bolans, Led Zeppelins, Jimi Hendrixes, Iggy Pops, David Bowies, Lou Reeds, Curt Kobains etc etc? We need those drug addled, unpredicatable, fucked up geniuses, that are so prominent in the history of the music we listen to. As someone else said, Pete Doherty and The Libertines believe the romance of rock 'n' roll and we need at least some people like that to keep it exciting. If they didn't make worthwile music no one would care, but they do make worthwhile music and they keep things interesting at the same time. It does it for me.
One point about the article (nicely written by the way) you accuse the soap opera of being all very contrived but then question "you wouldn't kick yourself out of your own band right, not when they are on the precipice of major league success." You also mention the guerilla gigging and ask "Was it really worth going to all that trouble just to promote your new single? Particularly as 'Don't Look Back Into The Sun' stood out in its own right as the best thing the Libertines had recorded up to that point at any rate." Surely these things suggest it isn't contrived? There's no sense to it is there, if they were trying so hard to be this way they'd time it all better. It's all too unpredictable, too spontaneous to be contrived.
xx

>Whatever happened to the sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll spirit?

It's great until someone dies. Whilst I would never tell anyone what to do with their body, it's obvious when someone is clearly doing something very very wrong when they live their whole life in a manner as public as this. Loads of people do drugs and I'm not making any value judgments on them, but in Pete's case there is obviously a big problem, it needs to be resolved and it won't be resolved the way things are going at present. The only thing I can think of is the three-pointer in my post above.

yes, Pete is one of those infuriating enigmas who never seem to fulfill their potential. I am not a great fan of the Libertines but any fool can see he has talent.
It's a shame he has let other things over-take the music but hopefully he will come back with a bang and start producing what he should have a long time ago!
He is a compelling fellow I must say. Infuriating.. but compelling!

the compassionate humanist in me wants Mr. Doherty to stop taking drugs, so then i won't have to read about him...

but i admit i find the whole shebang very entertaining even if the music is often, in truth, mediocre (though no more mediocre than every other indie band with 'something to say').

if he's happy to be a modern day circus freak, so be it. he certainly does get the attention, he certainly does spark debate. the fact, of course, that ultimately the debate is utterly banal seems to have passed everyone by. nevermind.

wake me up when he's dead. then i'll buy his records 'cos i know he's 4 real.

Seems a bit of a confused comparison: Brian Clough, a man who re-wrote the rulebook of the world's most popular sport and Pete Doherty, unknown beyond the dutifil reams of U16 London girls and fawning South Koreans.

Pete's undoubtedly a good songwriter with some great tunes, but if he was THAT good, they'd quit trying to sell a duff record off the back of a bit of smack addiction. He doesn't sell enough records to have a proper habbit. Not like he's a guitarist in the Chilis, is it?

yeah.

NEWS, I heard of a source very close to the band that, pete who hadnt slept for 3 days due to doing crack took a host of pills includign sleeping pills 15 minutes before Babyshambles edinbourgh show. He crashed out (totaly stone cold out for the count) and his manager went on stage to the sold out 1,400 capacity crowd to tell them pete wouldnt be playing tonight. In good scottish spirit there was a riot gear was wrecked the place was torn apart , cars turned over petes manager bottled and the band and bus had to be excourted from the vecinity via police escourt to a near by farm to retreat from the violent crowds.
Pet doherty what a waster what a fucking waster (listening to this song now makes me wonder if he is a fortune teller) there is NOTHING rock and roll about what pete doherty does its just un-professional and sad.

Anyone hear about the Babyshambles gig (or lack of) in Aberdeen last night? If not, read on :-

"Following three support acts having played to the audience, 25 minutes after Babyshambles were due onstage, The Lemon Tree's staff were informed by Bullet UK Promotions that Doherty, who was on the band's tour bus, was unable to play, due to "having fallen down stairs".

Another member of the Babyshambles tour party then made a statement to the audience to this effect and further stated that the Babyshambles perfomance would not go ahead. Some of the audience became unruly, with one setting off a fire alarm resulting in the building being evacuated."

Ohhhh dear.....

Not wishing to doubt the veracity of this, but I understand that the capacity of the venue is closer to 500... obviously the rest I can't speak for, and wouldn't want to.

I don't want the guy on drugs but to be fair i don't think he wants to be on drugs, it's wrecked his body and got him chucked out of the most important band making music today.

In the end i agree with alot of the article on petes drug addiction but some of it was not 'well written'. Contrived? Pete is anything but. Jonny burrell, Liam and noel, mani these are contrived rock stars acting how they think rock stars should act. Pete only ever be's himself and that is what propells him above these people

Hooray for junkies.

None of it is their fault.

It is all our fault.

Let's wring our hands with guilt at their 'illness' and allow them to get on with fucking with other peoples lives.

Re-read the post, take it all in, try and understand the points made, and then try to formulate an intelligent reply that has some relevance to what I've written.

Go on, it won't hurt...

Turns out he didn't soundcheck....

It appears that nobody saw him all night.

The Lemon Tree was hired for the night. Thus they have no responsibility for what has happened.

Bullet UK Promotions

I heard he was late for his Nottingham show because a bouncer found him in the dressing room with a needle in his arm.

I don't mind the Libertines, but this Babyshambles thing is a joke too far. People pay money to see their idol and then are short changed by Pete, by the band and by the promoters. Also the gate reciepts (football analogy there, should have said takings) seem to be going straight to Mr. Doherty's drug dealer.

Well, I'll give Dom one thing: he's certainly guaged the level of his audience to a tee. You deserve each other.

Authorities and The Lemon Tree have now intervined and the KEF re-schedule show has been cancelled.

My Aberdeen is suddenly on the music map for the first time since Geneva were signed....

I`ll get my coat....

whoops.

Mr Future

You didn't have to repeat yourself to make your point, honest.
However, Doherty was the one on the night in question who seemed intent on bringing up Cloughie inbetween every bloody song.
For someone who has a fanclub full of U16 London girls and South Koreans (your words, not mine) it seems quite inappropriate that 24 hours after the great man's demise (Clough not Doherty) that he needs to keep reminding us all of the fact when its been on every TV screen and radio station since 1400 hours the previous day.
Or maybe he just sees himself as a self-imposed maverick genius in the same way Clough was except without ever achieving anything of any real importance.

I attended the Norwich show with some friends of mine and enjoyed it. I don't mind saying it. Pete seemed in good spirits, playing along with the audience having a giggle and the like. However, returning to a previous point, the 'Hangers on' referred to throughout this thread, were there in force. It did make me feel rather queasy, especially when one of them was talking about knowing Tracey Emin. Never again.

What the hell is all this "I wouldn't wanna be Dom right now" business about?
How pathetic is that? Why wouldn't you want to be him? Is the Melon dude going to get his Dad to beat him up? Is he going to reply with such a vicious tongue it causes fatal lacerations?

Please, just accept that nobody will ever agree about articles like this. There are those that love Pete, there are those that hate him and there are those, like myself, who aren't really bothered either way and are more concerned with listening to the new Six By Seven album.

Everyone is of course welcome to their own opinions and musical debate is a great thing that keeps sites such as Drowned In Sound ticking. But please, lets keep this in check.

This is a website. The people who write here do so of their own free will. You are not paying to read these articles. If you don't like what you have read, then maybe make your point and then agree to disagree. Don't lower yourself to the point where you are making idle threats of 'I wouldn't want to be you right now.'
You are only showing yourself up for being a little bit silly.

We all love music, we wouldn't be here if we didn't. Keep on truckin.

"Watermelon" - obviously too scared to let us all know who you are but...hey...children will be children and all that, my article has obviously touched a raw nerve with you.
You "would imagine" that alcohol causes cancer! I think you just answered your own question about who the biggest idiot is.

Now run along back to your messageboard and change your pseudonym again because you're too shit scared of anyone knowing who you are.

Go on now, mummy's calling...

Dom G.

That gimp from the manics who vanished was not a songwriter. James and Sean would write the songs using his poetry for lyrics.

Yawns incessantly at the rambling pseudonym who believes cancer can caught after drinking a few whiskies...

Dom G.

So Dom G, rather than respond to my points about your piece, you would rather quibble that I post on an internet site under a pseudonym (hold the front page!) and a small detail about some medical matter.

I do not claim to be a doctor. You, on the other hand, claim to be a writer. Do the math.

Don't give up the day job Dom.

Seriously.

Come on, Dom - do you know what eloquence actually means? Look it up. You have a dictionary, right? You are a big shot writer after all!

I wrote you a very long reply. You responded by attacking my use of a username, picking me up on a medical matter, accused me of hiding behind anonymity, and then told me my mummy was calling. Scroll up - it's all there!

Dom: some advice. Before you can expect to write, you must first learn how to read!

While you're at it, perhaps you could point out those 'highly insensitive comments about cancer' I made. My oldest living relative is currently dying of cancer, so I don't think I would do that. (and before you ask, no! It wasn't alcohol related!).

And anyway, why this obsession with my real name? (apart, of course, from it being a smokescreen to avoid entering into discussion about any of the points I've raised).

Do you secretly think/wish that I'm Pete Doherty himself? Or maybe Alan McGee? Or another celeb? Sorry pal, but do you really think they'd be this interested?

At the risk of disappointing you, I'm not a celeb. I'm not even a junkie! In fact, I don't think I've ever even knowingly heard a Babyshambles record. And I thought 'Up The Bracket' was rubbish. Although I won't mind admitting that I thought 'The Libertines' was pretty good.

So that blows all of your conspiracy theories out of the water, I'm afraid Dom.

In reality, I'm just someone who doesn't like to read ill-opinionated drivel like yours masquerading as journalism.

Still, if it will make you feel better, my 'real' name is Bob. Happy now?

Bob W. Melon

Face it as soon as someone from this 'scene' dies - maybe ken doherty (sic) himself then the press will back peddle and think of something else to like - remember how much laddism took over after cobain's death and Richey's disappearence - the glamour allof a sudden lost its shine when reality knocked - same with 2pac etc - addiction to anything is depressing - famous or liying bleeding scrabbling for broken teeth in a wet gutter

Argument-wise, I don't know whose side to take. You all say things I do and don't agree with.

Nonetheless, Watermelon is currently winning this debate by a pretty substantial margin.

(Oh, and addiction is an illness. Blame people for doing it in the first place if you will, but denying its reality as a genuine illness is just stupid.)

Indeed Mr Melon, indeed - cut and thrust, not spit and poo-flick.

Dom's reactionary and blinkered view has sparked the most entertaining thread on here for while - if he'd written a balanced and weighed account of the Pete Doherty saga then there would have been nothing but tumble weed rolling through the board - save the sparse reply of "yes, that's fair enough"

cut and thrust, but keep it clean people. Seconds out, round 2!

Nah, it wouldn't improve it...it would mean the net is full of Eton schoolboys whose daddys' know the right people.

(I have no idea who the people you mention are *hangs head in shame*)

Ref : What the hell is all this "I wouldn't wanna be Dom right now" business about?

it wasn't an idle threat!!!

it wasnt a threat at all.
i know this is a website. i know we all love music.

these darn message boards have no tone of voice so people are often misread.
i was simply saying in reference to slaggings, how scared he must be (i.e. not at all).
get it yet?

dont forget i am a ghost.

Once a twat, always a twat in the case of Dom!

And as he doesn't like people using psuedonyms, maybe I should change my name to Thomas_Annuchetski_Garrard or something. Maybe that's a bit long, mind. His attack on Watermelon was ridculous.

Dom, what’s your problem with pseudonyms? Every time anyone criticises you in a major way, you always come back with some comment that they haven’t used their proper birth certificate name. Does it offend you that much? People aren’t scared to use their real names, so stop making it out to be some bold step in the dark to actually have your own name to log in with.

I still like the article but some of the comparison making is a bit stretched to say the least. Richey’s disappearance had fuck all to do with subsequent record sales. Most of the old fans I knew went off them when they started releasing unmitigated wank like ‘This Is My Truth, Tell me Yours’, round about the same time that the Number Ones and Jools Holland appearances started lining up.

One question Dom: if you’re not a Libertines fan, not a fan of Pete Doherty and not much of a Babyshambles man, why did you go to that gig? It smacks of ambulance chasing.


Andy (just in case).xxxx

"Once a twat, always a twat in the case of Dom! "

Good use of constructive criticism there Caviar, or should I say Thomas Annuchetski???

Dom G.

ILNNESS:

When your life is a mess light one more cigarette, it's so logical.

JUNKIE:

We are all junkies of one kind or anoither, be it music, or film, or reading shitty guest contributions to artivles about other people.... Shame skag gets the better of a man's mind and leads him to some very dark places.

"DEAL WITH IT"
If only you knew....if only you knew

shit stop discussing it.
he does drugs, he wants to get off them, he struggles.
just because hes famous it doesnt warrant the sort of posts that some people are putting forward.
i bet half of you get pissed off at how tabloids go on about peoples 'personal' lives, as far as i know drug addiction is a personal problem. if anyone cared about him (which i dont as ive never met him, why should i care anymore about him than some junkie tramp who is homeless in the city, dont get me wrong i care about homeless people, but not in a personal way about each individual) they would stop discussing and inadvertantly glorifying him.
we dont sit here discussing every single tramp that was a good person till he started doing smack.
i agree with supersheep

can i just say that alcoholism (or any drug addiction) isnt necessarily an illness. its more of a mental problem, which can or can not be an ''illness'' depending on the school of thought, or the region of the world where you come from. at the end of the day its just a form of escapism, and if he wasnt on (hard) drugs hed be deeply addicted to something else.

I think that because Pete Doherty puts himself in the public eye, he has to deal with the fact that bad things and experiences for him are going to be shown to the rest of the world. I think that by becoming a 'celebrity' and becoming well known off your own bat, you tend to lose any rights to privacy.

As a famous American comedian once said (I'm sorry but I can't remember his name at the moment);

"A celebrity is someone who spends all their life trying to become famous, and when they do, they wear dark glasses to avoid being recognised"

Pete Doherty just wanted to be a musician, but through his own actions, and by condoning the actions of others, he has become a celebrity and therefore should be treated as one, not some omnipotent God.

Thom.

You can only burn them, you can't eat them because their bodies are nothing more than abcess covered pus-filled fleshsacs of nothingness. Prime meat? Scrag end dog cuts, nowt more, nowt less.

You're not a prick. (I feel the need to confirm that others share your dream)

Easily the most informative post so far.

I thought cancer was hand in hand with bin Laden... the things you learn.

>>>This week has seen the untimely death of Brian Clough - a true maverick it has to be said in a profession of overpaid yes-men - and yet already over the past few days scenes of Princess Di-mania has hit >>>>the East Midlands.

I couldn't give a rat's arse about Pete Doherty, but as a Derby fan, feel moved to comment.

I think this was a very unfortunate and actually quite weak parallel to draw. There was no Princess Di-esque nonsense about Cloughie - just a genuine respect for what that man did for our region. When he became Rams manager in '67, he inherited a go nowhere Second Division team and turned them into the Champions of England, taking them to the last four of the European Cup, from a tiny little muckheap of a ground. My Dad was there.

Yes, we had a drink in his name and yes, we mourned his passing. He was a real man who believed in what he did with total passion and was possessed of innate drive. He had no time for quitters and losers. No excuses. He wanted to be the best and he managed to inspire those around him to feel the same way.

If only we had a few more musicians like that. We wouldn't have this pathetic wastrel and excuse for a rock-n-roller Doherty that everybody's so bothered about on the front page of the webzine then.

your a bit of a prick are'nt you? if you didn't like the article or the site why don't you use your right of free speech and fuck off to another site or even better, concentrate on why you don't like or do like pete doherty instead of wasting a hour of your life pulling apart the guys article you saddo

started as a pete doherty post has now ended with: brian clough, the manic street preachers and the links between alcoholism and cancer. jesus christ

I feel compelled to record for posterity on these pages:

BRIAN CLOUGH, FOOTBALL GENIUS!

Name one other manager who could have won Nottingham Forest the league title and the European Cup twice in a row.

Dom -

Get down off your high horse - it doesn't become you. Go back and read your posts - your level of writing and subsequent debate belongs to the playground (go back and re-read your posts for proof), which is why I also dropped down to that level. But if you want to get serious then I will.

Let's do this one by one, shall we?

Your point: the Manic Street Preachers became ‘international megastars’ because of public interest following Richie’s disappearance. Augmented, above, with:

“You made a half arsed comment that the Manics would have reached the same audience with or without Richie Edwards at that stage because 'Everything Must Go' was a commercial album, which is absolute tosh as they probably would never have made that record if he'd still been there or received the national media coverage or been invited to play Knebworth with Oasis. As I've said before Watermelon, criticise my opinion (provided you have the maturity to do it constructively) by all means but you cannot argue with facts.”

The facts, as you so rightly state, are that the 'Everything Must Go' sold more than 'The Holy Bible'. But that is the only fact here. To say that this was because of the coverage following Richey's disappearance isn't fact, it is conjecture.

There are many, many factors that could – and indeed did – contribute to this. I hold that the fact the Manics made an album with tunes, one that a mass audience would want to listen to and buy, far outweighed any benefits from the press coverage of their missing guitarist may have had. The Manics’ audience changed overnight around the time of Design For Life. Articles in newspapers about Richey didn't make beer boys buy those singles and albums; hearing that song on the radio or TV did. Your follow up statement that they ‘probably’ wouldn’t have made that album without Richey is not only more impossible to prove conjecture (who knows?) but also proof against your argument. It was the songs that contributed to their success, not speculation about Richie’s disappearance.


Your point: Pete Doherty’s drug problems were/are a contrivance to promote the last Libertines album.

Not entirely sure what to say about this, to be honest, as it’s such a preposterous proposition as to defy logical argument. I think you answer it with your own question: “am I being overly cynical?” I would say that, yes, you are. Naively so. To reference a previous point you made, do you think Pete would get himself a custodial sentence just to promote a song? Do you know what conditions are currently like in British prisons?

And Pete didn’t kick himself out of The Libertines, as you also assert – Carl Barat and Alan McGee sacked him, on account of the fact that he was unable to function properly in the band, something that his subsequent behaviour in Babyshambles would appear to confirm. Read any Libs/Pete feature from June onwards for these FACTS.

On a side note: Doherty’s much stated anger at this situation suggests that this is far from being a contrived stunt, but rather a complete disintegration of trust, friendship and loyalty that just happens to be being played out in public thanks to the insatiable demands of the blood-thirsty British media, something you claim to be decrying with this article, but are, in fact actually contributing to.


Your point: That being addicted to class A drugs etc isn’t an illness, and that people who show compassion for “junkies” need to “open eyes” and “deal with it”.

While it’s true that most (and I use that word advisedly) people experiment with drugs voluntarily, to claim that subsequent addiction isn’t an illness is at best naive and at worst ignorant. There are numerous causes of addiction, many of which are linked to mental or psychiatric problems. Presumably only Pete and his doctor or therapist know why he uses drugs, but to dismiss his predicament as purely self-inflicted and self-perpetuated, and the deliberate actions of “a spoilt brat hurling his rattle from his pram” is dangerously – and stupidly - presumptive.

To then criticise Pete’s fans for sympathising with his plight is downright offensive in its condescension. You deify an alcoholic control freak - and, for the record, Brian Clough didn’t just like “a few whiskies” as you state – evidence from people who actually knew him, like the man who ran the off license Clough used to visit, regular as clockwork, states that he used to drink two bottles of a day on MATCH DAYS; Teddy Sherringham remembers Clough filling his water bottle with vodka during TRAINING – others show compassion for a drug addict. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

Just because Clough’s addiction/illness is – ridiculously – considered more socially acceptable than Doherty’s, doesn’t make it any less self-destructive or deplorable. Again, I’m no doctor, but I’m willing to bet that alcoholism and its attendant health problems kill more people in Britain than class A drugs do. And while there is no direct link between alcoholism and cancer (which was never actually my point), pouring litres of poison into your body every day, which Clough did for over 30 years, will greatly affect your immune system, thus making you less likely to fight off other diseases like cancer. And besides, if the cancer hadn’t have got him, then the chances are his liver or heart would have done.


So, Dom, over to you. Are you going to address my arguments in an adult fashion, or you going to still crow on about pseudonyms?

Rob Davies

Sorry to butt in, but alcoholism is considered more socially acceptable than drug addiction because it's drug addiction which is responsible for the huge wave of property crime, theft, which is happening in this country.

Glasgow has a history of addictions to both substances, and both are destructive of people and families.

Coming home to a cleared out house kills off a lot of peoples sympathy to drug addicts.

Alcoholism is a dreadful dreadful state of being. I personally believe that it's worse than anorexia and self-mutilation as it's far harder to stop it affecting those around you. Anyone who can beat alcoholism is a very special person in my opinion.

It's hardly illogical to imagine there is a link between EXCESSIVE alcohol consumption and cancer. It's ignorant to state as fact otherwise. Maybe Dom could do a bit of research into the matter himself, before he continues to disregard this fact.

"Re: the Manics - it equally doesn't take a genius to work out that The Holy Bible was their least accessible album, and Everything Must Go their most commercial."

Higest chart positions in brackets.

Early/Generation Terrorists:
Theme From M.A.S.H. (7)
You Love Us (16)
Motorcycle Emptiness (17)
Stay Beautiful (40)
Love's Sweet Exile (26)
Slash N' Burn (20)
Little Baby Nothing (29)

Gold Against The Soul:

From Despair To Where (25)
La Tristesse Durera (22)
Roses In The Hospital (15)
Life Becoming A Landslide (36)

The Holy Bible:

Faster (16)
Revol (22)
She Is Suffering (25)

14 top 40 singles before Richie left.

I signed up for this website cos i read that fuckin shit 'article' about pete an then read all ure bullshit (apologies to the 1's who wernt sayin bollocks, I no its not all). How can u sit there an say such fuckin bad things u have absolutley no fucking idea abbout his mans life, only wot u read in the fuckin sun/star/shit papers u stupid bastards. there could be a million reasons for him doing what he does, not like any of u lot'd care tho. its people like u that sit there and pass judgement on everything and every1 that make all the hatred and create all the animosity. I would bet my balls that not one of u would say anything of the shit u say to petes face if he was sat down in front of you. stop hiding behind ure computers and in youre numbers and stop being so fucking negative. and grow up, what great things have you done recently? i bet pete has brought a lot more joy into a lot more peoples lives than any of you have. Grow up and get a fuckin real hobby, not one that has you sit there and slate everybody else.

You are a real dick, and so is the fuck wit who wrote this article. He knows nothing about music, the concept of illness, empathy. He is an amateurish intolerant cynic. cocks.

Your opinion Jane.
Obviously not mine.

well only pete could divide public opinion like this. god bless him

christ, i liked some of the article but thought watermelon made some interesting points. but then dom started acting quite a jerk and repeatedly evaded points.

for example:

""Why do you think he had a liver transplant? For the free hosipital food?"

And the relevance of this to either the article or anything that's been commented on since is?????"

the relevance was clough was a proper alcoholic, as evidenced by his need for a liver transplant - a point which was quite pertinent seeing as in the article clough was pointed out as a hero and his addiction ignored whereas doherty was damned for his addiction. just it wasn't alcohol that killed clough - the drugs haven't killed doherty yet either, and clough admitted that his drinking almost killed him and probably was the cause of his management downfall.

and just for the can of worms, i did some superficial searches and discovered there is some evidence linking alcohol use to some cancers, including those of the upper and lower digestive tracts (though admittedly evidence of a link to stomach cancer is weak). well i never!

for the record, not that the record matters becaue this is a pseudonym after all, though just to let you know i'm none other than peter tupton of kenshaw close, durham*, i find doherty to be quite annoying, but moreso the coverage of him. the hero worship also bewilders me, but i do understand that it's not for his failings, it's not for a stupid glamourisation of his drug problems (bar some), but because people believe he's a real talent. i hope he gets over his drug addiction, as i would for anyone else, and i can't see there's a problem with that. i don't know if people have gone overboard with their well wishing, from the anger in dom's article i guess some must do. it's the coverage of it that's got out of hand for me.

*not true

I'd just like to say that as far as I know Peter Doherty doesn't ask for people to feel sorry for him, he doesn't care if you call him a junkie, he just wants people to like his music, and as far as I can tell he doesn't really give a rats arse if you don't. As far as the not turning up for performances that people have forked out good money for, I think that's despicable. And you say that he is a wealthy young man who could afford rehab but the fact is that it was Carl, John and Gary that paid for the rehab all three times, Pete can't even afford a bloody pair of curtains! While Carl is living in Mayfair, Peter is living in Tower Hamlets, which just proves that he's spent so much money on heroin that he can't get off it without someone paying for his rehabilitation [no offence to anyone living in Tower Hamlets]. Yet I doubt anyone has the belief that he can do it any more.

I never actually knew anything about Cloughie apart from what he did at Nottingham Forrest. I don't know about his drinking problems or his private life. But if he was an alcoholic I don't see how that is any different to class-a drug addiction, seeming as alcohol is also a drug. And as for what was said about alcohol not leading to crime like with junkies... then have you not been in a city centre at midnight?! Crikey, just minding your own business could get your head kicked in.

Saying Cloughie achieved more than Peter is a bit of a strange comment, since they are both in completely different professions and also Pete has only been in the business for a few years.
I always used to think of rock music as a bunch of shit really, boring and always leading to a headache. But Peter's lyrics made me look at it differently. And yer that's just my opinion, especially me being one of those pre-mentioned "15 year old Doherty fans" but by no means does that make me a slut thanks very much!

Drug addiction is a mental problem. I don't see anyone saying that Ian Curtis of Joy Division was a twat for being depressed and hanging himself. It's the same as slowly killing yourself on horse.

I hope Peter comes off the drugs and sorts out his problems, otherwise the end is nigh...

I'd just like to say that as far as I know Peter Doherty doesn't ask for people to feel sorry for him, he doesn't care if you call him a junkie, he just wants people to like his music, and as far as I can tell he doesn't really give a rats arse if you don't. As far as the not turning up for performances that people have forked out good money for, I think that's despicable. And you say that he is a wealthy young man who could afford rehab but the fact is that it was Carl, John and Gary that paid for the rehab all three times, Pete can't even afford a bloody pair of curtains! While Carl is living in Mayfair, Peter is living in Tower Hamlets, which just proves that he's spent so much money on heroin that he can't get off it without someone paying for his rehabilitation [no offence to anyone living in Tower Hamlets]. Yet I doubt anyone has the belief that he can do it any more.
I never actually knew anything about Cloughie apart from what he did at Nottingham Forrest. I don't know about his drinking problems or his private life. But if he was an alcoholic I don't see how that is any different to class-a drug addiction, seeming as alcohol is also a drug. And as for what was said about alcohol not leading to crime like with junkies... then have you not been in a city centre at midnight?! Crikey, just minding your own business could get your head kicked in.
Saying Cloughie achieved more than Peter is a bit of a strange comment, since they are both in completely different professions and also Pete has only been in the business for a few years.
I always used to think of rock music as a bunch of shit really, boring and always leading to a headache. But Peter's lyrics made me look at it differently. And yer that's just my opinion, especially me being one of those pre-mentioned "15 year old Doherty fans" but by no means does that make me a slut thanks very much!
Drug addiction is a mental problem. I don't see anyone saying that Ian Curtis of Joy Division was a twat for being depressed and hanging himself. It's the same as slowly killing yourself on horse.
I hope Peter comes off the drugs and sorts out his problems, otherwise the end is nigh...

i am not one to criticise the opinions of people i don't know and probably would not like but the newspapers are CONSTANTLY filled with 'shambolic wasters'.... Posh Beckham for example....and pretty much every labour politician in England. At least Pete Doherty is talented, he is in fact a legend already. People don't worship him because of his crack addiction but because he offers far more as a musician than anyone else of this generation. S club 7 are most certainly on crack.

"Clearly written by a moralistic idiot."

You don't know me Spartacus. To me, the only thing thats clear is you're bitter because I've written a few home truths about someone you obviously hold a high regard for, whatever the reason.

"And anyway i don't see why the Brain Clough comparsion was made either."

Simple Spartacus, because Doherty came on dedicating stuff to Cloughie who'd passed away the day before the show, and who was someone that actually INSPIRED and ACHIEVED greatness, unlike Mr D.

*sigh*

why don't you take up crack and heroin too then, eh?

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