someone on the radio(head) yesterday described Kraftwerk as "the most influential band in the history of popular music"!
how i LOL'd.
Truly poor music.
Don't get me wrong, i'd go and see them. I hear their shows can be quite the spectacle, but in terms of being big influences on modern, credible bands. Nah.
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nice try
To think i'm on the wind-up here...
you'd have to think they're more influential than the Beatles, or the Smiths, or the Clash, or the Pistols, or the Beach Boys, and obviously it would be stupid to try and claim that.
ok
Glad i've swung your opinion.
Have a lovely day.
you too
:')
Thissing doesn't get much more passive aggressive than this folks.
i only recently realised
just how awful the clash are
nonsense
Not awful, just dated
used to love them - now it's like using a betamax or something. I know that's a dumb analogy, but...aw, who cares.
Sounds like an ill-concealed dig at deep-blue to me...
Easily more influential than the Smiths.
Influencing pretty much the entire of electronic music is a way bigger deal than influencing a few miffling indie bands beloved of a bunch of virgins on the internet.
But traditional bands are a dying breed
Most bands now adopt some form of electronica these days, and if they do that can be traced back to Kraftwerk for popularising it. Kraftwerk also had a big influence on Hip-Hop. Plus look at how many people are making music at a hobby level using electronic equipment. These things are hard or even pointless to judge but I agree Kraftwerk are more influential than the Beatles.
Not possible, i'm afraid.
have you ever heard
electronic music?
If that were true
then it would mean Mojo has been lying to me all this time.
It's easy
The Beatles were/are influential for rock (guitar-based) bands, Kraftwerk for electronic (and sometimes rock) bands.
For a long time rock music was mainstream (so The Beatles were more influential than Kraftwerk then). Now it's viceversa.
Even Rammstein covered The Model...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVfRkMi0KaY
Don't feed the troll
Leave him to concentrate on being wrong about football.
its just the chain of influence isnt it
they were around at the right time. so some people who like electronic music may not know or like krsftwerk but the guys the do listen to were influenced by kraftwerk.
its about as accurate as saying leo fender, les paul or jim marshall is the biggest influence in music.
Thales influenced kraftwerk.. thus hes the most influential etc
Kraftwerk were at that exact point
in history when mass media and TV spread that message and electronic music was new. Doubtless if it hadn't had been Kraftwerk it would have been someone else taking those synths and making that sound. Luck of the draw.
Exactly - it's ridiculous if it means indirectly influential as well as directly
If you extrapolate to the nth degree, surely the most influential musicians on today's popular music were the first human ancestors who started banging rocks together to create a "musical" rhythm.
But we aren't talking about back then
These questions are very much about the moment they are asked. Kraftwerk won't be very influential in the year 2988.
The probably are.
4-piece guitar bands existed before the Beatles & would still have existed without them. The Beatles are undeniably massively influential but they were still built on the bedrock of rock & roll/R&B. Kraftwerk were so far ahead of the game they had to invent & build their own instruments and they didn't just influence the sound of other bands, they changed the whole way people perform, listen to & interact with music, and they're still doing it.
Without Kraftwerk entire genres would either sound very different or would simply not exist. Whereas had The Beatles not existed, I'm pretty sure we'd still have white 4-piece guitar bands. To say KW are less influential than The Smiths, who, much as I adore them, weren't that influential in the grand scheme of things, is laughable.
THEY probably are. Hung over.
Kraftwerk really brought something new in music. They were ahead of their time and they didn't sound like anybody else.
The Beatles refined existing ideas. The Beatles were/are still more accessible to the masses, while Kraftwerk's music require a certain level of understanding music, because it's more abstract and distilled to essence.
I can't This this enough.
You hit the nail on the fucking head. PERFECT.
you didn't This it at all.
Don't be a penis.
Kratfwerk didn't invent electronic music, it's been around since the early 1900s.
!
Kraftwerk didn't invent electronic music. But: they made electronic music more accessible, and they wrote a lot of pop songs made with new (then) technology, not experiments like before. Plus the whole minimalistic aesthetic from songs, artwork, live shows, etc.
"...it's been around since the early 1900s."
Good luck listening to these early experiments. It's clearly why Kraftwerk are important: they were probably inspired by these experiments and made actual songs (in their own terms) that you could play on the radio.
Plus Kraftwerk invented hooks...
...that were sampled over and over.
The influence isn't just about Kraftwerk..
Personally i don't put all the credit on Kraftwerk for having a futuristic sound. We must remember the companies who made those synths too. That technology accelerated the creativity. Lets be honest, if you were to play Kraftwek songs on guitar they wouldn't blow your mind musically. It is about the sound more than anything and the synth manufacturers are responsible for that.
Isn't just Kraftwerk...
Other electronic music artists from that era: Jean Michel Jarre, Mike Oldfield, Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, Yellow Magic Orchestra, Brian Eno, NEU!, Cluster, Harmonia, etc.
None of those are as influential as Kraftwerk, that was the question
I put it down to the instrument more than the band. The start of the mass electronic age.
Personally I think Tangerine Dream are as influencial as Kraftwerk and I think they influenced more styles/genres within the Electronic world.
Tangerine Dream influenced a lot of ambient music artists, that's for sure
+
Can
I think what's more tedious
is everyone falling over each other to applaud everything as Most Influential this and Seminal that. It's boring.
Just enjoy it or don't enjoy it, don't spend your poor little life trying to canonise everything and look like some all-percipient Rock Historian.
It's not boring to discuss music when you love it
No one said it matters though, just a bit of debate is all.
can you imagine actually being a rock historian
oh god
You'd have to rename yourself 'Paul' for a start
kraftwerk probs ripped off silver apples mind.
There's a good debate in here somewhere
But yo had to go and troll it up. I can see a pretty big argument for Kraftwerk, definitely.
Pistols?
didnt know you were into boybands
Pistols: overrated as hell
Yeah
Sex Pistols wasn't a musical influence, more of a cultural one for a while.
what the sex pistols did
is tell people to pick up a guitar or mic and not bother to learn how to play properly as long as you have attitude. In fact get fucked out of your skull and then play, it doesn't matter if you sound shit as long as you have attitude. Kind of the anti-musical influence really. Influential on tone deaf posers who want to be in a band to be cool without having much musical ability.
that's one spin on it i suppose, if you want to be exclusive about music making
or you could say that it's ok for people to enjoy making music, anyone can do it
I don't agree with that
Anyone can make a meal but there is a big difference between boiling a Pot Noodle and going to a top restaurant. I enjoy a pot noodle but given the choice.....
well that's just a difference of opinion
i hate musical snobbery though
fwiw though, i'm a drummer and i at least like to think i'm good
(someone else can come along and say i'm shit) so it's not like i don't play and am arguing from that point of view
I like pot noodle, but I know it's not the best food.
But just because everyone has the right to make music, which they do, doesn't mean they have the right to dictate who listens to it. And of course you are a music snob, I doubt you listen to x factor boybands and like it as much as your favorite bands. We are all selective, labeling it as snobbery is just a poor attempt to appear superior and more open minded than me.
Also
If you aren't a music snob why even practice on the drums? If anyone can play them it doesn't matter does it? Those learning actual skills on the drums are snobs aren't they? etc. By your logic.
you seem to make alot of assumptions
on what music he likes and how much he practices.
his main point is music = fun. everyone should be open to that.
then you go off on a tangent about being dictated to...??
i used to run a pop music club night
and i'm a self taught drummer so again, fwiw
that's in reply to you matt
but i'm agreeing with you. scomatsho did assume a lot there
You are avoiding the question
Do you like Peter Andre the same as (insert you favorite band). P.S. this is your fault for bringing snobbery into it.
peter andre, no, not really a fan
but girls aloud and michael jackson are right up there with sweep the leg johnny and botch
Michael Jackson
was amazing at singing, song writing and preforming. Hardly some tuneless twat shouting into a mic because he's "all punk". I hate style over content.
what DO you like?
i'm not looking to put you on the defensive or attack anything, i'm just curious
Anything, even cheesey stuff on occasion.
But i know when something is Edam. That was my point about the Pot Noodle. I enjoy one but I know it's crap. It's never going to be taken seriously in the world of cuisine no matter how much I enjoyed eating it.
so you know it has less value somehow?
maybe it's that it is a bit standard or there's nothing new or exciting about it. that's just one element of music though. like musical proficiency. i can take it or leave it.
Musical proficency
isn't just about playing well by a set standard. it is also about being good enough to communicate an idea from the brain to the instrument by knowing that instrument through practice. People who don't learn their craft can't get close to having a proper vision realised. You could argue that sometimes good things happen by mistake, which they do. But that falls under the art of selection, which again is another skill which is developed.
i mean, that's interesting
but i still don't agree. i think i prefer the accidents and the improvisations. i don't like it to be as cognitive as 'communicating an idea'
Music is maths
Patterns are better than random numbers.
they both have their place.
especially when used alongside each other
But if you are using a random number
that choice is a pattern
so there's no difference
which is what i'm saying.
but as you prefer randomness i will give you my answer as follows
ioniopoj,crghmoniecjhm903ty90mwcriogshtgum0wmiowcjh[hmopwcowcgwcgjio.
Better to communicate an idea surely?
if you think having a conversation and playing music are the same thing then yes
Both are methods of communication.
Relaying a thought via a medium accessible to both parties.
as i've said
i personally don't like to view music in those terms. even if i did though, i don't see how not being able to play your instrument 'technically well' would stop you from expressing your idea. look at daniel johnston. he can't really play at all. i can do that (and i'm certainly no guitarist) but what a fucking songwriter. incredible.
also, can't someone fix dis, having this conversation while it gets thinner and thinner is really doing my head in :D
It's getting thinner
bloody maths
music can be about fun
without a message, just people having fun.
icelandic throat singers sitting having fun, woudlnt give a shit about marvin gaye or peter andre. its down to personal enjoyment.
that answer's as worthwhile, insightful and meaningful as any of your other posts in this thread
to be fair
Music isn't maths
ffs
It largely is though
But being better at maths doesn't make better music
That is like saying not using Pi
gives better circumference calculations. You can't argue with logic.
no it isnt
maths can be applied to it
but maths can be applied to most things
Booooring
I think the ideas contained in Never Mind The Bollocks are much more interesting and exciting than, for example, Dark Side Of The Moon (chosen for similar era, instruments, totally different levels of technical proficiency)
Also
stop comparing Pot Noodles with haute cuisine, it's nonsense. I doubt a Michelin starred chef would know where to start with making a Pot Noodle (as in, making it from scratch, creating it)
stupid points
but thanks.
That's the point i was making
that the points you are making are stupid
I guess no-one wins here
preforming
yes, MJ was always doing things beforehand. haha.
Who's making assumptions here?
I was called the music snob by him. I didn't make any assumptions on what music he likes and his drumming, i asked questions. I had a point I was trying to illustrate that is lost on you. Just pointing out that he practices to be good because he wants to be a certain level, therefore a snob by his own logic. I never said music shouldn't be fun. Learn how to read before making your own assumptions.
er, i didn't call you a snob.
maybe i implied it, i don't know, but i certainly didn't mean to. i don't really practice at drums that much either. i haven't played at all for about 2 months
God this is painfull (for both of us I'm assuming)
Yes anyone can pick up a guitar and have a good old time strumming it and banging on a pan lid with a spoon. But it's crap, it has no value because everyone else could do it. There is no craft, no skill, no time invested. That is my point, nothing snobby about it.
no, i disagree entirely
Ok, so you and your cheerleader
won't mind me sending you an album of me tunelessly wailing in a made up language while randomly beating a drum. You can listen to that in place of whatever album you are currently enjoying. Yes I have the right to do that but I can hardly hold it up to Marvin Gaye for the vocals, Buddy Rich for the drums and Shakespeare for the witty wordplay can I?
i'll give it a whirl
but i'd prefer to see you do it live.
2 4 6 8
lets all go and procreate!
goooo cat_race!
I give in, you are right.
In fact i'm not going to the surgeon next time I'm critically ill. Fuck all that knowledge, skill and experience. I'm sure i could do just a good a job myself on the kitchen table.
no need to be like that
we were just exchanging opinions
i was just being droll
*dull
* twat
with no opinion of his own
Don't cry
hes already taken his ball home
Nice one Joey Essex
Love it how you are going on about the Sex Pistols
and punk. But can't even take a differing opinion on a music forum without attempting to shoot it down. Yeah, true anarchist aren't you. If John Lydon was on here giving his irreverent view, and you didn't know it was him, you would probably label him a twat. You are weak minded and your persona is a flimsy construct of other people's opinions. And you call me dull. haha.
go and listen to dream theater you boring wank
So basically Sigur Ros then?
Sweet, I look forward to it
Amazing that people still think that the Sex Pistols couldn't play their instruments.
I mean, where's the proof?
Are we talking Sid Vicious - I'd agree if that was the case, but if you mean Glen Matlock, then obviously you've not heard him play a bass guitar. Steve Jones was a brilliant guitarist and Paul Cook a great drummer.
Where does this myth come from that the pistols couldn't play.
Also, to say that the pistols weren't influential is really poor trolling.
Nirvana, The Pixies, Joy Division - etc.
Sex Pistols were influential
I never said they weren't. But in a more cutural and attitude/approach way to music - not musically. Also i never said they couldn't play, i was saying they inspired people who can't play to play badly and be ok with that. Made them look like everyman heroes sticking it to the system I guess.
in this respect though, music was HUGELY behind visual art
the technical craft of painting as it is applied to art stopped being important so many decades before
Try getting Damien Hirst
to paint a picture of your dog
i don't see what that has to do with anything. i'm not sure whether he can draw particularly well or not
i know tracy emin can't draw for shit (by her own admission) but she is still an incredible artist
scomatsho seems to discuss things
by taking metaphors, similies or arguments so extreme that they no longer apply to the original point of discussion, then when trying to discuss this point, throw something completely unrelated in there and begin repeating the process about this...
Random isn't it? cat-race loves random
Try and keep up
its not random..
its weak and shows poor rationale, supporting paper thin beliefs veiled behind a pompus self righteous attitude.
bit snobby really.
You don't understand
Run along
haha course i dont pal
cheers
amazing.
you reply to a post accusing you of being snobby with "you don't understand". You sure you're not on the wind-up here, pal?
Sorry dude, Damien Hirst is an outstanding artist.
He chooses to do the stuff that he's well known for.
I take your point about the Pistols though.
Never said he wasn't
cat_race doesn't have a dog
Duh
You just reminded me
I've got a degree in fine art btw. We went to the Tate once and I put a biro on the floor and me and some course mates stood there pondering it and chin stroking. People came and joined us thinking it was real art. You probably think that makes me a fine artist more than the degree itself?
not at all
it's great that things like that can happen. i love when those boundaries aren't fixed and nobody knows what was going on. i was having a conversation with a friend the other day about how much we both hate david shrigley. but it's in a gallery so it's worth looking at. it's the same as your pen.
Right, got work to do
Cat-race. Nice to talk to you, enjoyed it. Matt_was_taken - you are a person with no opinions, a yes man, a crowd pleaser and too quick to get abusive - can only assume that is because your comprehension skills are lacking and it is frustration with yourself.
enjoy your afternoon of work
you can choose to ignore this post as you have others ive made, i think you were the one throwing round abuse first too :)
ok i forgive you
enjoy the rest of your day
I wish Jliat posted on DiS :(
it sounds like you're slating the musical prowess of the sex pistols, ^ here.
not sure why you'd do that. the pistols had a great set of very well put together songs.
to slag them off for getting fucked out of their skull, sounding shit and being anti-musical (whatever that is) makes it sound like /you/ are the one falling for the superficial fluff.
sure, vicious was a wastrel but, in truth, he had pretty much fuck all to do with the pistols. he joined in early 77, and the band was over within a year. but by the time vicious pitched up, cook and jones had been playing together for five years, matlock had been playing with them for three years, and lydon had been singing with them for a couple of years, too. they weren't just some dossers who picked up some instruments and got lucky a month later.
the pistols could play. also, they were robbing bits of abba songs, ffs. hardly the move of heathen eejits. they knew what they were doing.
ah, LOLpop got in there first.
what a fucking rotter.
a radio service announcement followed me home the other day
it said ''kraftwerk are influential''..go away
I got a letter from the radiohead's the other day
I opened and read it
It said they were suckers
They thought kraftwerk were influential or whatever
Picture me given' a damn, I said never
Did they do the she's a model song?
I know that one.
I don't know if I agree with that or not.
But you can't take shit like that seriously anyway. The MBV review on here called it the most eagerly awaited album of all time or something like that.
Remember that week everyone thought that Swans album was the best thing ever? That was fun too.
the seer was actually a great album though
mbv is okay
m b v is fairly dull.
The Seer is an excellent album for sure.
Viceversa
m b v is a lot of things
but I struggle to think of how it's dull.
Can we get Danny Baker's view on this please?
fix
You've got to hand it to him
*scrolls down without reading 'owt*
they are. cheers.
oh you should read it man
it's fun
.
You're ruining an artform here, champ.
y'see
I can imagine that if the Beatles had never existed not much would be different in the world of music today
I can't imagine, however, what popular music would be like now if Kraftwerk or James Brown had never existed
glad we all agree
the person on the radio(head)
board was probably right.