Boards

they employ a pay to play scheme where by they want to sell you 30 or so tickets which you can sell for how much you want. unless you have a large fanbase then i wouldn't recommend it becuase effectively you are paying to play there and doing their job as a promoter. they offered this to my band and i replied "yeah sure, but only if you write a couple of songs for our set as we will be doing your hard work". needless to say, i didnt get a response. it seems to be a way of exploiting new bands and is a terrible method in my eyes, although they will probably cry the old "we're just trying to cover our backs...". good work with the review, whats yer band?

avoid

There are SO many better places to play...Try

Windmill
Goonight at Buffalo Bar
Wilmington
pretty much anywhere else really.

The Lexington, good venue, good promoters and good fun!

yeah, don't play there unless you're dying to play in london. I played there with my band a few times. we still receive emails now and again from one of the promoters there, asking if we want to play. so I replied, why not, we don't have anything better to do. then the guy called me and said:

"are you still interested in playing mate? but the last time when you played you had 4 people coming down to see you. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY TO THAT?!??"

so I replied: "when was the last time you had good sex, you tit?"

well, I didn't actually say that, but I should have. the answer is simple though: because the promoter didn't promote the night. simple as that. the band plays, the promoter promotes. otherwise: why on earthe should we need a promoter anyway?!?

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:bfvQix57m_0J:drwndnsnd.com/community/boards/music/4163280+%22Did+Anyone+Else+Get+The+Monto+Water+Rats+Bullshit+Email%3F%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari

that both The Lexington and The Windmill are great places to play with some great promoters between them

was meant to play the Water Rats a couple of months back. They approached us to play but then seemed to bottle it a week or so before the gig and started telling us that if we didn't sell at least 25 tickets ourselves before we went on stage then we weren't allowed to play. So we cancelled and ended up playing The Social the night after instead, which seemed like a pretty nice if you can get someone to put you on there.

They seem to be even worse now they have multiple venues.

They phoned me last week asking if we could play at 229 this coming friday. They said seeing as it was short notice they'd only need us to bring 20 people and they could give us a £4 list (which they seem to do all the time anyway). We'd played The Water Rats before and it was alright, if badly attended, plus we didn't have anything else booked this side of christmas so we said yes.

The guy from Monto phoned me twice in the next week checking on numbers we thought we could get in and that we weren't playing any other gigs around that time etc.

Then this morning he phoned to say that there was a slot on the same night at one of their other venues, The Underbelly, that he thought would be better for us and would we mind moving - they'd reduce the guestlist entry price to £3. He then spent about 10 minutes going on and on about the venue being owned by a guy who used to design sets for u2 or something. I said that was fine - the underbelly is nearer home - and then set about spreading the word all over the interweb.

Then 2 hours later he called to say that actually the gig at the underbelly was being promoted by one of the other monto guys who'd filled the spare slot without him knowing. And he'd already filled our original spot at 229. So we couldn't play anywhere. He'd get back to us with more possible dates to play.

I suspect it was actually because we were too honest about how many people we'd bring.

I'm steering clear from now on. Lesson learnt.

A message saying how much they would like us to play live. We are a radio show, nice to see they actually read our profile.

Did anyone else get the Monto Water Rats bullshit email?

A guy called Joe Kelpie sent me multiple messages saying he really wants give us a show, seemed really interested and everything, last communication was on Friday.

I ring up today and someone there tells me that Joe Kelpie has been fired but this new guy would still love to give us a show......if I bought 60 tickets in advance at £3 each.

Harse Holes.

Happen to anyone else?

Has Monto always been a pay-to-play venue or are they struggling for punters so they've given in to the dark side?
Siberguy | 16 Feb '09, 14:08 | Send note | Report this | Reply | X

* Artists:
* None

Plus
Ajax-loader
Plus
96 replies
View: Nested | Linear

*
Monto isn't P2P

Unless just recently changed like in the last month... thats odd hope not.
Anthonyc | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 14:40 | Reply | X
*
Shoes And Socks Off

had the same email, also offering a pay to play deal. Obviously it was declined
bsmrocks | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:01 | Reply | X
*
Hi Si!

Yes, I know several bands who had this.

I hadn't thought they were P2P though...!
holy_coe | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:11 | Reply | X
o
Hi Hollie!

Finally got a profile instead of being just a lurker then?!

Kudos on the avatar.

PanicFloat is my new favourie song by the way
Siberguy | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:38 | Reply | X
*
Until recently it hasn't exactly been pay-to-play per se

but it has had a slightly problematic policy of putting the emphasis disproportionately on the bands rather than doing it themselves. I mean obviously it has to be a joint effort on both parts but they do seem to have more of an attitude of "you get x number of your friends to commit to paying £6 each and we'll give you a gig". It's somewhere I've tended to steer clear of.

At the same time they certainly haven't been pay to play to my knowledge. This was them direct rather than an outside promoter?
theguywithnousername | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:29 | Reply | X
o
how

is what you've just described NOT pay to play?!
MatthewCargill | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:31 | Reply | X
+
yeah

I mean, he didn't say give "give me £180 and I'll put you on the bill" but....he did really.

There's not a vast amount of unsigned bands that could pull 60 people to The Water Rats and they are lying if they choose to plead ignorance of this.
Siberguy | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:40 | Reply | X
#
and FYI

It was the actual venue themselves that I spoke to, not an external promoter.
Siberguy | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:43 | Reply | X
*
Yeah, they've taken it in-house

and I'm not hearing a lot of good things about bands' experiences. As I recall, when DiS user ehwhat was asked if he would play at the Water Rats again he replied "I'd rather set fire to my own hands."
joeymahone | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:47 | Reply | X
#
YEP

Long story short, we just got ousted from a show at the Water Rats that had been booked for three months. Bloke phoned up the other day (two weeks before the date) asked us how 'serious we were' about the show, and tried to make us buy £180 worth of tickets to sell on. Absolute joke (esp. after we'd been totally good and done the whole not-playing-a-gig-for 4 weeks in the run up to the show, flyering it and all the rest - water rats hadn't even managed to put us on their website or the poster outside the venue in that time).

Needless to say we didn't buy the tickets. As if. Real small time way of doing rock business...
andrew_wolfpack | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:47 | Reply | X
#
its

p2p in my book. no arguments. le cockmasters that they are. fuck em.
tbkband | Send note | 18 Mar '09, 12:38 | Reply | X
+
Because pay-to-play involves a band giving money directly to a promoter

rather than committing to selling a certain number of tickets.
joeymahone | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:43 | Reply | X
#
^

Hence my use of "per se".

It's definitely p2p by stealth, just technically they could claim it isn't.
theguywithnousername | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 16:27 | Reply | X
*
yes! sort of

I had the same email recently, tried to get something booked there and heard nothing back. the part about P2P is news to me but not a huge surprise to be honest. They were one step away from it anyway (Last time I spoke to them they were doing 6-7 band bills and insisting that we had to guarantee to bring 30-40 number people down, that sort of thing).
grundylezimbra | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:41 | Reply | X
*
Just remembered I had a message on Myspace

from a guy called Darren under the profile name of Disco Twins a couple of weeks back.

Classic message: "We'd love for you to play at Water Rats"

My standard response: "Thanks for your email, that's awesome that you want us to play a gig. Don't we need to be a band for that, though?"

No reply thus far. Maybe they're not interested in having record labels play gigs for them after all
bsmrocks | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:48 | Reply | X
o
:D
holy_coe | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:50 | Reply | X
o
Maybe they want you to get the entire roster on stage at once

Hey, I'd pay to see that.
joeymahone | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:51 | Reply | X
o
Bsm

i had a myspace email going
"hey were always looking for new talent to play our nights"
nice...except my profile hasnt been used during a 6 months management sabbatical and i got the very same message on my tape label
i very much suspected that it was going to head in the same way yr convo did. Shame. Another one bites the dust.
darrenbjohn | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:53 | Reply | X
+
oh and they have the magic numbers on there

on 27th Feb. Wonder how many tickets they had to buy? :D
darrenbjohn | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 15:54 | Reply | X
#
we were on that night

but got moved to make way for the numbers...
andrew_wolfpack | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 16:07 | Reply | X
*
aha literally moved to make way for them?

they are pretty hefty!
darrenbjohn | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 16:11 | Reply | X
*
urgh

has anyone else noticed how they've started putting 7/8 bands on a night now as well?
guntrip | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 16:12 | Reply | X
o
They seem to do this insane thing at weekends I've never heard anyone do before

of actually putting two "nights" on on the one night - so at 10 o'clock they kick out/charge again everyone who was in for the first "night" for the second "night" of entertainment...
theguywithnousername | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 16:26 | Reply | X
+
that sounds totally fucking twattish
sophiacherryx | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 19:54 | Reply | X
+
Yeah they've been doing that for a couple of years now

Brainlove got stung by this as I recall
roastthemonaspit | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 09:41 | Reply | X
+
they're not

the only people who do that.
shadyadie | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 10:32 | Reply | X
o
I wonder

If all 8 bands are paying £180 - in "advance ticket sales"

1500 quid.

Tidy.
Siberguy | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 16:26 | Reply | X
o
yes

see my post above! bloody psychos
grundylezimbra | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 17:26 | Reply | X
+
7/8 bands a night?

even if the first band went on at 8pm and the last one at 1am - then that would still be a nightmare.
ConcentrationFace | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 17:45 | Reply | X
#
everyone i know who's had to deal with monto

which is maybe ten or fifteen people, has said they're a bloody nightmare, dicking people around, this bullshit "buy 50 tickets in advance" thing, putting 4 bands on in a night that make no sense together. i'd steer clear. sad thing is the water rats itself is pretty sweet.
the_outdoor_typo | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 18:22 | Reply | X
*
It's a shame

they've basically run into the ground and utterly fucked up what used to be a really nice venue.

And the silly thing (and this may even be why the Pay to Play's come in) is it's a business strategy that can only work in the short-term. Once they've fucked the venue less and less bands are gonna wanna play there and less and less people are gonna wanna go there. It's living off its reputation that it's the kind of place where mags like the NME sometimes review shows but as they lose those kind of bands through fucking there reputation in time it'll become a place like the Comedy in Leicester Square where the only people playing are new bands who'll accept any gig and bands from provincial towns prepared to bus a crowd in in order to say they've done a "London" gig.
theguywithnousername | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 18:39 | Reply | X
o
^ this.

Exactly this.
Siberguy | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 19:10 | Reply | X
*
I had the same email/conversation

with someone with a different name. It is pay to play and for this reason and all the others in this thread we had not a thing to do with them. I'd rather play somewhere with less of a reputation that is actually interested in putting bands on because they like them.
grill199 | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 20:01 | Reply | X
*
We also got a message. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Hey Guys

I'm currently booking our schedule here at Monto Water Rats. Interested in getting Internet Forever in for a show, perhaps you could give me a call on the number below or forward me a contact name and number and I'll give you a shout to discuss.

Regards

Tom Rogerson

Monto Water Rats
0207 837 4412
tom@themonto.com

..www. themonto. com..

------------------------------------

That profile has since turned into something called Electric City: www.myspace.com/electriccitylondon
heartbeeps | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 20:47 | Reply | X
o
tom rogerson?

from three trapped tigers?
oenso | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 10:08 | Reply | X
*
Got this as well...

Rang up the guy, convo went like this:

HIM: So what type of venues do you play in London?
ME: Well... You know, pubs, clubs... Venues...
HIM: Right, I see you have a gig at 93 Feet East coming up, could you tell me about that?
ME: We were asked to play and said yes.
HIM: Okay, great. Well we'd like to have your band on here, how many of your fans come to your gigs?
ME: Sorry?
HIM: How many people come to see you?
ME: I don't know?
HIM: Okay, thanks.
DIRTYCraig | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 21:06 | Reply | X
o
this phone call...

pretty much happened to me. i used to play the water rats about 2 years ago. it was great. but now they seem like. um. dicks. not sure i want to play there now....the rnn 229 as well, whats that like?
bottom | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 00:00 | Reply | X
+
they doing RUN 229!!

it's just another venue they use.
shadyadie | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 10:34 | Reply | X
#
*don't run, that is
shadyadie | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 10:35 | Reply | X
o
lol

bellends.
tbkband | Send note | 18 Mar '09, 12:40 | Reply | X
*
they

ring me once a week, trying to get each band on our label to play...
deussoundgarden | Send note | 16 Feb '09, 22:43 | Reply | X
*
oh! i had Tom from Monto water rats phone me

about 5 months ago, after i gave him my number, he it pretty much went the same as the convo above, the thing is though i, for a while, thought he was genreally interested in my band. he claimed he's keep checking up on us and put us on a show as soon as we know we can bring 50 paying punters to the gig.

absolute toss
mattrunwalk | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 00:06 | Reply | X
*
monto water rat is a good place to play.

I saw MGMT there. Last friday I had to wait 20 mins or so to get in to the venue, which is a minor gripe considering the place is packed to the rafters.. still a little pissed off about that though .. why 20 minutes?. I like the in house p.a and the soundman (italian?) obviously knows his shit. we never had to pay for tickets in advance when we played there and the deal is roughly the same as the Barfly. At least the water rats have a full backline which they offer to all bands. that saved us a few quid. which at least is better than most shitholes around london. we got some beers and cash at the end. we had to ask for the beers mind.
motoboy1976 | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 01:20 | Reply | X
o
hmmm

who do you work for then?
Victory_Rose | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 14:58 | Reply | X
*
This is the same crap i had with my Midlands thread a few weeks ago

"how many ppl can you bring?"

I asked if they paid for our fuel costs and they never got back to us!
How many people can we bring? Why are you asking us to play? Have you seen us play before? No you just flood millions of bands with offers like a muck spreader covers a field.

Jog on pay to play.
stumbeleine04 | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 02:55 | Reply | X
*
The venue's nice

but Monto are complete and utter crooks - ACTUALLY the worst promoters in London. The whole thing is comepletle stealth-PTP.

Once you get inside it feels like the promotions duties have been handed over to Foxtons.

Hopefully WR will get a bad enough rep and Monto'll get the boot and move into Pyramid scheme sales
ehwhat | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 09:29 | Reply | X
*
It's a big shame

because as has been said, the venue's wonderful.

Played a couple of really fun shows there in the past. It does seem like they're just trying to stuff bands on bills at the moment though. Whilst it's great to have such available access to a good venue, it's hard to shake the sense that they only value bands for their ability to bring the money. A bit liked a dolled-up slaggy golddigger; you can dip your proverbial wick in, but you're likely to end up out of pocket and possibly with a disease.
oenso | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 10:23 | Reply | X
*
never had any probs with Water Rats...

Shoot me down but i've done it a couple of times and I've only had a good experience. never known it to be P2P either. Great sound on and off stage, they actually have a lighting rig plus its been heaving when i've been.
Agree with the above regarding queueing...20 minutes is excessive and I also had to ask for beers...but if they sort that then its still one of the best small venues imo.
n16music | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 12:09 | Reply | X
o
Which band are you in?

ta
ehwhat | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 12:12 | Reply | X
+
E17
heartbeeps | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 12:15 | Reply | X
o
you're fooling no-one n16music
freshpickings | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 12:22 | Reply | X
+
not even when he posted as motoboy1976 too...
theguywithnousername | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 12:24 | Reply | X
#
Sad isn't it
ehwhat | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 12:39 | Reply | X
o
get

to fuck n16music, your a crook, and just posting the same thing every time sometime questions the 'venue' you clearly 'work' at is beyond pathetic.

They actually have a lighting rig?
Arsed. You prick.
tbkband | Send note | 18 Mar '09, 12:44 | Reply | X
+
*someone

the rage fucked my lexical grip.
tbkband | Send note | 18 Mar '09, 12:47 | Reply | X
*
Gone downhill

Badly. Every artist I know has been getting shitty treatment from them. We're at the stage where they ask us to play now (obviously know a gravy train when they see one) but our latest gig has been moved to a different day, different venue and as of yesterday, a worse time slot. They claimed it was 'an improvement to the night' then asked us to play the opening slot and got arsey when we refused. They over charge punters, are really rude on the door and give the bands jack shit out of substantial door and bar takings. It'll be our last gig with them until I hear the situation has improved.
pixie_lanegan | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 12:52 | Reply | X
*
"Support Bez from Happy Mondays / Gem from Oasis / someone else vaugely unimportant related to a huge indie band?"

"if you can sell X amount of tickets, then you can!"

I've had quite a few of that sort of message from Water Rats / The Monto / Disco Twins / a.n other front for the same organisation.

Ridiculous really.
oxygenthief | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 13:22 | Reply | X
*
My band

... were interested in doing our album launch there last autumn - on the condition that we select the bill (at this point none of us had any real idea of what they're like now). The guy we were dealing with (can't remember the name and can't be bothered to check) was fine about it until we confirmed the date of the show, at which point we received an email from someone else there saying that any other acts we wanted to play would have to be vetoed by him first. So we pulled out, put the launch on at a warehouse/gallery space in Stoke Newington, picked the bands, charged people absolutely nothing to get in and had a much better time.

Last I heard was that they're getting a fair few bands "walking" at weekends, having turned up with their equipment to be faced with no promoter and 6/7 other bands who are as confused as they are. Sounds like a logistical nightmare which benefits absolutely no-one but them.
mrscomedyarms | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 13:46 | Reply | X
*
i hate london

I've found it incredibly hard to get a gig there, still haven't played ... the only problem I have is that 229 is shit, Bugbear is shit, what else is left??????????? Metro was a hole, but at least you got paid. Fucking played to fuck all people there and everyone was walking past the band to go for a piss in the toilets.. is this the best it gets? Has anyone played at Dublin Castle recently? I hate london
acoustic_george | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 14:15 | Reply | X
o
Do you hate London?

I don't think you made it clear enough. EVERYONE wants to play London, and I'm sure all promoters are mobbed with emails from bands asking them for a gig (which is where promoters like Bugbear make an easy buck). If your main concern is getting a paid gig in London then you might as well forget it, it doesn't always happen unless you're liked by the right people or have contacts with decent promoters who will put you on. I've played some awesome gigs in London, probably some of my best, thinking about it. Gotta link to your myspace?
theetersecrimp | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 14:20 | Reply | X
+
Indeed. I've done some amazing gigs in London

but obviously there's a hell of a lot of bands so you either need to be very good, very well-connected, very persistent or very lucky (ideally a combination of all four) to get the good gigs.

And obviously it's about patience and persistence too - obviously when you first start you've got to take whatever gigs you can get but if you work your way through those gigs and go about things the right way it's not by any means impossible to get into a position where you can pick and choose your gigs in London and do some really really good nights.
theguywithnousername | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 14:57 | Reply | X
#
^this
pixie_lanegan | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:31 | Reply | X
+
I don't hate London

but you're right what you say theetersecrimp, any unsigned band looking to make money in london is suffering from down syndrome, really. Playing all those toilets in london, what do you get? NOTHING!!!! Come up to Leeds you sothern puffs and i will show you how a band gets treated, beers, food, payment, the FUCKING LOT. You make me laugh, don't you get it? they are all the same, bugbear, bugfly, water mats, club down symdrome, .. whatever. I travel down there with my boys, we play a gig, we get a few beers and a tokenistic tenner, your all the same. I hope some northern lads can get sorted with good gigs in the future, no bastard will let me play those venues because we want 100 quid for costs.. WHICH PROMOTER WILL GIVE A NORTHERN BAND 100 QUID FOR PETROL???? none. you are all teh same. I will go to london with me missus to do shopping, but not to play for bafrfry, watterrats, club motherfucker or club 123. hope you die you fat cunt.
WhiteRoser | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:10 | Reply | X
#
I'm doing a gig in Leeds on Saturday

so I'll see for myself how a band gets treated.
theguywithnousername | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:18 | Reply | X
#
needs more capitals / exclamation marks / question marks

6/10, would read again, for a laugh. Strong ending.
ehwhat | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:23 | Reply | X
#
Okay, enough with the down syndrome/'puff' comments...

I also think your view of London gigs and promoters are very deluded. For a start Barfly is a venue and Club Motherfucker is a clubnight run by external promoters, and they operate very differently...
theetersecrimp | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:25 | Reply | X
#
amazing!

*frames*
shadyadie | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 17:13 | Reply | X
#
POTD
Victory_Rose | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 19:00 | Reply | X
#
lol-ed.
M-I-E | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 19:33 | Reply | X
o
club fandango's good

enjoyed that a lot, that was dublin castle.

anyone played shows with plum promotions? what're they like these days?
oenso | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 14:26 | Reply | X
+
wut band are you in?
shadyadie | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 17:12 | Reply | X
o
DC

is pretty good actually. They ask us to play a lot, we've never felt any pressure in terms of how many you bring (we've had between 2 and 40 people on wildly different nights) and if you do get a lot of people down they will pay you fairly. The other good thing about it is the passing trade that you actually seem to get there - much more so than the likes of Water Rats.

Basically you'll usually have a fun gig night there and it's hassle free. It's a small venue, bit tatty but the sound is fine and they don't seem to just be in it to take money from penniless musicians!
pixie_lanegan | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:00 | Reply | X
+
^This

D.C have always been fine really...Bugbear in general. You get a soundcheck, the sound man's a good chap, it sounds fine and you get to play..What else do you want?
ehwhat | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:04 | Reply | X
#
you london lot

why dont you just go and fuck each other up the ARSE... listen mate, i have to go off pipe fitting in an hour or so, why dont you get a job? do you work for a living fag face? do you work for one of these pub promoters? you do dont you? this is a joke. LISTEN YOU LITTLE LONDONERS, no fucker gives a shit. why dont you come out pipe fitting with me for a day instead of BLOGGGING for some hairy arsed promoter that lives in farnham with his wife in the laura ashley dress (and little flopsy the rabbit). if you are working for a pan faced cunt of a promoter by blugging on this little site then you are a MUG. happened to jonathan ross, same's going to happen to you. OUR BOYS IN THE FORCES UP NORTH HAVE HAD ENOUGH.
WhiteRoser | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:45 | Reply | X
*
^either Tom from The Enemy

or a fake account.
theetersecrimp | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:48 | Reply | X
o
:D

If he'd been a bit more subtle he could have strung this one out for a few more posts. He's no Mickey-Loosefit, that's for sure.
theguywithnousername | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:51 | Reply | X
*
please let this not be a fake account

please let this not be a fake account

I really want someone to be this bad at life
ehwhat | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:55 | Reply | X
*
You're not doing us fey northern types

Any favours at all.
in_limbo | Send note | 18 Mar '09, 13:11 | Reply | X
o
^

this.
talskar | Send note | 25 Mar '09, 19:22 | Reply | X
o
up all night

are ace promoters and fair ticket deal too
gazbid | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:32 | Reply | X
+
bwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaaaa

[cough]

yep - Ian Huntley - what a babysitter too
ehwhat | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 15:54 | Reply | X
o
My band played at Dublin Castle recently

and Andy Ross (ex-Blur A&R guy) said we were 'fucking abysmal'!

Great gig.
katamariii | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 18:47 | Reply | X
*
Oh well it appears we weren't the first to have this problem then!

In which case, anyone who thinks they have a case to argue against Water Rats should contact the Office of Fair Trade’s Consumer Direct hotline on 08454 04 05 06 and register a complaint. Unfortunately it's probably not enough just to object to pre-sale ticket deals in general; rather, if you feel like you were forced into one 'by stealth' (as someone desribed above) then you probably have a very valid - and possibly legal - objection to make...
doyoulovepeople | Send note | 17 Feb '09, 17:19 | Reply | X
*
Can empathise

Monto are wankers, just as Plum Promotions were when they ran the Water Rats. I had a phone conversation with some estate agent type waxing lyrical about Monto for about 20 minutes. Ignored them ever since.

All the standard London venues aren't worth playing, the 90s are over. Create your own scene, your own entertainment. Let them come to you, if they're interested. If not, who cares, as long as you're having a ball.

http://www.powerdownordie.com
marmadukedando | Send note | 12 Mar '09, 18:23 | Reply | X
*
Disco Twins

We've got TONNES of water rats gig offers with under exactly the same circumstances... We even got an offer for someone there to manage us?!
They also put us on in Kings Cross about a year ago and it was an absolute disaster.
The Soundman was a complete twat, who did a terrible sound mix and didnt bother setting up a foldback speaker. The 'disco twins' were hardly there, and when they were they were rude and obnoxious. There was no clamp on the hi-hat stand, and when I asked them about it, i got a 'should have bought one then' and nothing else. Absolute terrible.
We spent the entire night buying beers as well, and about 15 minutes before the night ended, one of the other bands told us there was a box of beers behind the bar for the bands to share, that the promoters hadnt told anyone was there so they didnt lose the money they'd put towards them. Absolute Bollocks.
I've toured quite a bit, and i know i'd much rather play to 5 people in a small pub to 5 people, but with excellent sound, a few beers, maybe a few bob and a promoter who's obviously done his best to get people down than to a room full of the promoters mates who dont give a shit, and get completely ripped off. Absolutely terrible!
holysmokesrecords | Send note | 13 Mar '09, 00:32 | Reply | X
*
Water Rats e-mail

I've just been looking about the site and was dismayed to find that I'm on a board linked to Waterrats... I worked a trial week there as a promotions assistant, but left (was not fired!) pretty much exactly for the reasons that've been posted on this thread... They take bands for a ride without a care for the genre or standard - wil just throw together a random selection for a night to ensure they make their money, try to enforce their pay to play system on everyone they physically can... They don't give a guestlist - just an unlimited £6 entry list which is pretty extortionate anyway...

It's so annoying that my name's associated with them now...

Regards,

Joe
joekelpie | Send note | 18 Mar '09, 12:29 | Reply | X
*
Total bastards

We played the water rats last night despite lots of warnings and you our experience was consistent (understatement!) The headliner droped out because of the dodgy P2P thing, and so did the other band we were to play with. We thought we would get brownie points for sticking with it. Well, we were grated with 5 other bands which turned int a hectic mission. The Sound guy was a right wanker, when we arrived a bit late for sound check it was all stress and we were told and i quote "you should have taken the day of work, this is a proper venue" Fuck off! we are a proper band! Just have jobs!! Half way through our set we were told to finish early as the venue had to shut. The headliner was then told they couldnt play, having come all the way from Italy to play a a London gig!

To add insult to injury the night cost £8 (£6 on the guestlist) although the guest list inexplicably stopped at 8:45 and so people that came to see us had to pay £8 to watch a night of miss matched bands, minus any sort of promoter, then leave early getting the boot into the street. They then refused to give any refunds!

I am still in utter disbelief. There were about 60 people there, which ok, is not capacity, but on a wednesday night, having charged that much to get in, can not be making a loss SURELY!

I advise all self respecting bands to NEVER play this venue as it is frankly insulting.

Thanks, LAura
laurachops | Send note | 19 Mar '09, 22:53 | Reply | X
*
229

Hello to you all,
Stuart here, Manager at 229thevenue (on Great Portland Street). This thread was sent to me and provides interesting reading! Firstly, 229 is not run by Monto. We are an independent venue and I work with a host of promoters including Club Fandango/XFM/Live Nation/EYOE/Kilimanjaro to name but a few. Monto also book nights with us. As a venue I strongly oppose 'the pay to play' method of filling a venue with fans. If I suspected it was happening at 229, I would put a stop to it. 229 has built it's reputation as a new live music venue in a relatively short space of time, with quality sound etc. and I now feel we are at the forefront of championing new bands in London. We're also starting our own nights, so if we know about you and you're good enough we'll be in touch directly. I take all feedback very seriously and will always investigate comments as made above. 229 will happily accept constructive criticism too. Cheers, Stuart.
stuart229 | Send note | 25 Mar '09, 15:11 | Reply | X
*
I'm glad you guys are reacting against Pay To Play finally!

London is infested with these 'promoters' that make upto £600 a night with no actual flyering or even listings and clug up venues. I wrote an article about this last year but I'll repost it at www.myspace.com/damnablypresents as bands I like are falling for these scams still to play venues such as 333, The Metro, and even those classy plays like Pigalle.
micromegas | Send note | 27 Mar '09, 11:11 | Reply | X
o
FIGHT P2P!

Yes, i feel all socialist now..where's my arafat scarf..?

Seriously though - monto are scumfuckers, as are all venues asking for people to buy tickets before gigs.Fuck 'em.
douglasdouglas | Send note | 27 Mar '09, 11:31 | Reply | X
o
metro shut down 2 months ago...
shadyadie | Send note | 27 Mar '09, 11:54 | Reply | X
+
:(

:(
:(
:(
guntrip | Send note | 28 Mar '09, 02:08 | Reply | X
o
Good work

John Brainlove on here has been railing against pay to play for ages, and has had more No Pay to Play myspace profiles removed than you can shake a stick at.

Just a point though - as far as I know Bugbear and that unplugged promoter you highlight don't operate pay to play as far as I can figure out. Asking for bands to bring 20 people isn't the same thing unless they're asking for money upfront or that you make up any shortfall on tickets sold.
Rockefeller | Send note | 27 Mar '09, 12:04 | Reply | X
+
yeah - bugbear have always been fine to me far as i remember
ehwhat | Send note | 27 Mar '09, 12:07 | Reply | X
#
Me too, when I was playing

As I recall, they're honest about the fact that if you don't bring anyone you probably won't get asked back – but y'know, they're running a business. I wouldn't expect someone to keep putting my band on if they were making a loss on us.
joeymahone | Send note | 27 Mar '09, 17:46 | Reply | X
*
complete joke

did a gig with them this week
they do no promotion whatsoever - but alled everyother day to ask how many people we were bringing
did not get a sound check as they put on 6 band and there was no time for us
they made us pay in advance to let some guys in to do a review then refused to let them in without paying!

don't go near them....
dualist | Send note | 27 Mar '09, 21:39 | Reply