I have put persecution in inverted commas, because this is the word that is in debate. Having looked up some of the facts about this, I am very frightened. Italy under Berlusconi is happy to turn a blind eye to a serious piece of racial unrest:
"The people do what the political class isn't able to do." is a pretty frightening quote to come from a mainstream Italian politician. And as for the high court ruling that "all gypsies are thieves", that's little more than racism in disguise. Pretty disgusting that a 'mainstream' political party can advocate this kind of thing.
But the overriding question is: could this happen here? What are your views on the Roma? Experiences?
thats a bit extreme
they should have said "90% of gypsies are thieves, 10% arent physically able to steal."
I don't think you're being serious
I really hope you're not
i am
to that extent, but from the people i know who have visited there it is a MAJOR problem.
On a crime basis?
I don't buy that line from a government with probable mafia links and a serious corruption problem. If Berlusconi cared about crime (which as the article says, is actually lower than in Britain) he'd go after everyone. He's looking for an easy scapegoat, that's all.
If he cared about crime......
he would have pleaded guilty in court!
Lots of Roma in Dorset along with Anglo/Irish new age types.
The majority of my experiences with the Roma have been negative, but I don't suggest that this implies anything on a wider level.
Roma girl can be beautiful, my friend works with one called Romany, she's a pitchfork style 9.9
Scary scary scary!
In my experience, it could happen here. Every time gypsies stop for a couple of nights in a town on their way to a horse fair there is outrage in the local paper for weeks afterwards.
my views on gypsies are basically, the very few I've met have been lovely, lovely people with an absolutely fascinating culture and heritage that they are striving very hard to preserve in the face of brazen prejudice that is frequently treated in a much more flippant manner than other forms of racism. And if people choose to live their lives in a way that the settled community find "weird", let them do it. As with everything in life, diversity is fucking awesome.
Some gypsies were in our front yard a couple of days ago,
having a waterfight with our hose. My mum went out and told them to go away. I hid in the house and watched.
Oh and could it happen here?
Absolutely.
I don't think any country is immune to the dangers of rabble rousing and the victimisation of a minority.
Just look at the way that the Polish have been targetted by the tabloid press.
It's a fantastic way of attacking immigrants without being accused of racism.
The Roma...
are human beings, and therefore it's impossible to generalise about what "they are all like" etc.
People often say things about Roma people that they would never tolerate being said about any other ethnic group.
^
So a common culture
between certain groups of people doesn't exist?
Couple of points
1) 'Having looked up some of the facts about this, I am very frightened.' Are you really, genuinely frightened? Are you a gypsy? It would seem you're either a pussy, or scaremongering for effect.
2) Where my parents live it's quite rural and there has been ongoing problems with gypsy/traveller types for years. Based on my personal experience of them, i have little time for them. It seems they 'they' turn up, make a racket, trash the place, sometimes steal our property, and just wait for the police to move them on; often leaving behind them a large piles of rubbish.
From what i've seen, there are very few redeeming qualities.
You are generalising..
about a whole race of people. You know that's a bad thing, right?
The difference is that he, as a person is allowed to do that
But when the state is the one doing the generalising, it's far more serious.
You're right.
It's just that a lot of people who wouldn't consider themselves as racist are quite happy to perpetuate racist myths.
If you take away the ability of the individual to make generalisations
then you're no better than any fascist or totalitarian.
The states job is to ensure that the generalisations made by its citizens do not affect its treatment of any of its other citizens, nor endanger the lives or livelihoods of its other citizens.
fair enough..
and I think you're pretty cool for posting the initial article.
Yeah, I'm not saying I agree with his generalisations
but he still has a right to make them.
That article genuinely disgusted and frightened me.
Have you gone out of your way
to look stupid?
I am frightened, because this is racial stereotyping on a mass scale
in a supposedly modernised european country who is both a member of the EU and the UN. What kind of precedent is that setting?
I share your concerns.
However, membership of the UN doesn't mean a thing and the EU is a moveable feast, the standards and parameters of which shift dependent upon who fancies doing what, where and when.
Very little can be done about this matter other than a rather more liberal party winning a decisive electoral victory in Italy..........
the problem being that no such party exists in sufficient strength to do that and there's no such thing as a decisive electoral victory in Italian politics in the first instance, hence weak coalition governments with dodgy parties like the Northern League there to make up the numbers.
to be fair to the EU
my understanding is that italy has been manoeuvered out of positions of responsibilty because of its inability to look after its own affairs
this kinda racism can be pretty prevalent in bits of italy, i dont think its really likely it could happen here in the same way despite what people say ive never really encountered the same sort of thing here
i've heard about this in Italy
it's really really scary - the mayor of Rome, the fascist guy, had promised to get violent at the gypsies (i think). it's very serious in Italy, that's all i know
Bit of a weird question isn't it
Not many people seem to like the Roma much though http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6155642.stm
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/roman-mayor-vows-purge-of-gypsies-1363515.html Read that and say that isn't worrying. (It's not purge in the death sense.)
Between maybe 90 and 200 thousand Roma were murdered in the Holocaust..
where I live
he have a sizeable number of eastern europeans have moved in over the last couple of years. My area has a reputation as being tolerant and open to everyone and has a history of Italians, Irish, jews, asians etc. However, since the eastern europeans showed up the place has turned into a pigsty, slum landlords, illegal evictions, child prostitution, the violent rape/murder of a woman in the local park by someone who then fled back to Slovenia. They've moved right into the heroin dealing scene. My gf works in a local jewelers and they come in and spend £700 at a time on the tackiest gold in the shop while on benefits. They come back a week later and say "I've worn these earrings all week and decided I don't like them and want a full refund" and when refused turn extremely nasty. A proportion of these people are criminal scum who have no place in this country as they will contribute nothing but a bad vibe and resentment and should be shipped back where they came from immediately. As has already been said, nothing's black and white and all incomers aren't automatically good or bad but we have to be prepared to send the bad back where they came from or they will paint all incomers with their brush and breed an atmosphere of fear and persecution for all sides
So, you're basically saying they're all the same?
that's a stupid question
so why bother answering it
It is a stupid question,
but I had the same claim laid at my door when I didn't shout "I LOVE GYPSIES" so I thought it only fair to ask.
"they will paint all incomers with their brush"
no. it's everyone else doing that.
everyone ?
for no reason ? are they just gullible xenophobes being led by the nose by an intolerant media ?
you've misunderstood me.
their actions in themselves are not "painting" anyone else with anything. People who make generalisations do that. That's what the phrase means.
Also
eastern europeans =/= roma
but that's just pedantry