"Don't know Riley, it's just always been that way."
from a recent conversation with my son
At the risk of sounding elitist I sound the refrain:
"Why don't people like good music?"
(present company excluded of course) <--------now that sounds elitist.
What would be the repricussions (or benefits) of good music on the radio or more deserving artists adored by the masses? Are both groups of people (those that like good music and those that don't or can't like good music) equally cursed- or equally blessed.
please don't ask me to define "good music", you know what I'm talking about- that's what brought us wretched used up using users together on the DiS music board- silly
: )
because
people that like good music like it because it isnt part of the mainstream? and because people dont like to be challenged blah blah blah. i dont think we can have this conversation with out sounding like pretentious cocks. well, i cant anyway.
Just let yourself go and forget that PC BS
you said people like good music cause it I'SNT part of the mainstream- not because good music is necessarily better than the mainstream?
"people that like good music like it because it isnt part of the mainstream? "
uh. no.
Are you
Ian Broudie?
who is I. Broudie
some one good I hope
Outspoken former rocker......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Seeds
*Current apparently.
Bands don't really split anymore, do they?
He's got a son called Riley
so I thought I'd put 2 + 2 together and made not much
because a lot of people
listen to what is fed to them, or what is easy to get to.
if they listen to radio 1 all day at work and in the car on the way home and nothing else, then they're missing out on another side of music.
I think it's a good thing that lots of people like bad music.
With any luck, they'll have totally forgotten that festivals and gigs exist in a year or so and will all go back to the nasty clubs in nasty Greek resorts full of nasty Brits listening to nasty dance music.
this is one of the only perks I can see
more good music for me to enjoy in intimate venues soaking up the unnoticed fruits of truly gifted artists with cadres of like minded fans.
I reckon it's cos
most people aren't deeply into music. It's like how the films which do best aren't necessarily the classics, I mean Will Ferrell comedies usually do pretty well, but it's not like they're the best films ever are they? They want something easy to listen to, and most of the time that isn't Cap'n Jazz or Battles or Fuck Buttons, it's bands like Coldplay.
Nail on Head
I don't consider myself into films in the same way as with music. As a result I am happy just watching something I don't have to think too much about and which will look pretty. I don't spent time seeking out films so just watch what I am presented with really. Some of these are ace like the Bourne series but other times just generic summer blockbuster. The same will happen with the others and music.
Good point
it's not just music.
"Dad, why don't people like good ANYTHING!!???"
Is it wrong to pity someone cause they think Einsturezende Neubauten is just noise?
I have even pitied loved ones for their terrible taste in music. I think it's time "Good Music" was taught in school.
I bet your loved ones
think you're a mad fool for listening to Fuck Buttons and such... I know mine think such of me.
Yeah they def pity me back
They have said as much and expressed concern for my sanity as well.
: 0
It depends whether or not
those who don't like "good music" enjoy their "bad music" as much as you enjoy your "good music".....
You see, this is the stupidness of it
I have to assume that what music is DiScussed here is generally good (cause it is). And what's on the radio is generally bad (cause it is). So why is there this perception gap with each group of people so polorized? BTW let's try not to bring age into this too much, for the sake of argument let's just talk about 15 to 35. People like me are an abberation and kind of uncommon.
there is alot of difference between tastes even on this site
I could start a thread about almost any alternative 'good' band, and have about 50% of the people replying that the band is shit.
I know that, you taught me
ha
ha indeed!
your the best
I laugh at the memory!
Cheers!
any time
babe
good music is entirely defined by the people who listen to it
I hate discussions like these. Noone likes the same stuff. It just happens that some music has more fans than others, and that music is the music that you don't like.
Why should people who listen to music that you don't like be missing out? If they like the music that they listen too, then they are happy, right? And chances are that they do, or they wouldn't listen.
Personally, I like the fact that my fave artists tend to be less universally adored... its much more fun for me, like I'm part of something more unique. And it makes my friends and I even closer due to us having yet more in common with each other than we do with other people.
Why does good music always seem to have a smaller audience
why can't we be massively, globally, universally cool? Someone always has to put on some Arrowsmith or Lynrd Skynrd or Fergie.
Michael Jackson
David Bowie
The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
The Clash
The Who
etc.
youll have a hard time proving to me that these make 'bad music'
Not all of it is to my taste, but that doesnt mean it shouldnt be called 'good music'
Radiohead
.
There are exeptions
I have seen every one of those bands but The Rolling Stones and one other (I did see George Harrison). Seen Bowie twice and I didn't go see'm cause I thought the were bad. I guess you're trying to say there is some good music on the radio too. Don't defend radio on this board- it's idiotic!
I was listening to bbc 6 music today
great radio station!!
hook me up now god!
I wish I could turn it over to a dj sometimes. I get bored having to constantly enternain myself.
i think you can listen on the net.
bbc.co.uk somewhere... all the shows are still available for a week. one or two are a bit naff, but most are choice.
*shows still available for a week after initial broadcast
why would we be cool if our music taste was the mainstream?
I don't know. Would you really want to be universally cool? I like the idea that I have a bit more individuality represented by my music taste. Does that sound stuck up?!?
Anyway... mainstream acclaim can be damning to certain acts. Just look at Jeff Mangum, and he was barely popular...
ALSO (another example...) do you think albums like Nick Drakes brilliant trio would be anywhere near as special if they weren't so cult and... well, secret. Its far more easy to become attatched to albums on a personal level when there are less people listening in... its nice really. There are albums that mean so much to me, and I don't think they would if everyone else in the world had ham-fistedly attatched their own personal experiences and emotions to them.
because most people dont care about music that much
they just like a nice song that they can hum or sing, and have on in the background. they dont feel the need to listen to something challenging or what someoen defines as 'good'. Look at the most successful artists over the years, a lot of them make 'good music'.
Theres several other points that i can make but i cant be arsed.
Ahh go on
Go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on,go on.Go on
i have to go out
i would love to get into this but im going out soon and cant be wasting time proving why im right
You see this in attitudes towards music purchases these days......
a lot of people don't want albums in th sense of a cohesive collection of songs that were meant to be listened to together, no, they want to cherry pick individual CHOONZ.
: (
To be fair though, this is partly the fault of the major labels who have fostered a culture of 3 or 4 good singles and a load of filler....let's call it an album.
Yeah and theres nothing wrong with that in itself either
if people are happy doing it i dont see why other people get pent up about it?
It doesnt affect the music i listen to in any way really, so why is it considered a problem?
That's it!
They don't care about music and they don't fear death. They don't realize you only get to listen to music for one short lifetime.
why does it bother you though?
chill man!
its just a discussion... why does any of the crap on this site bother us?
surely im the one who is being chilled out?
I don't know
I think I interpreted that as a more aggressive question! Sorry.
No problem
it wasnt meant agressively at all
Doesn't necessarily bother me
just wonder why my childhood friends are still exclusively listening to music from forty years ago. I'm wondering why good music is not commerciially viable. Why is it that SHITE SELLS?
its not necessarily shit
its just stuff people can enjoy without putting too much effort into it. not everyone values music as much
Right again
but it goes back to how much you care, what is the value of your musical experience. I (a person who drives 1000s of miles every year for gigs and spends hugely on purchasing cds and gear) might be a person that over values music - nahhh.
That's exactly what I'm going to tell the next person that asks me that question
Why don't people like good music?
Cause they don't care.
It is to a certain degree true
but just because someone doesnt like indie music doesnt mean necessarily that they like bad music. Sure, the charts contain a lot of crap, but it serves a purpose and is therefore cannot be described as bad. Its not to my taste and i think its shit, sure. But it makes people happy, and therefore i think its worthy.
I dunno. How come some people have never heard of Broken Social Scene?
Zing!
I get them mixed up with Buena Vista Social Club
SELF BAN REQUEST.
<3
Cause you aren't running for president for the sole purpose of making them the national band
Oh, Sick burn!
Speaking of good music
My Son has just told me of a rumor going around that "Head is coming back to rejoin Korn" and they are going old school.
because,
some people just don't find music as important as others.
mainstream music is normally pretty easy listening, but boring and generally all the same.
Thanks
you and fucktherave have really said it in the simplest terms. I should be happy with that argument- but it is hollow. Those people care enough about music to spend billions of dollars (probably every month) buying crap. They buy sound systems to play their crap on. They go to crap gigs that are designed to fleece as much cash as possible in the shortest amount of time. No, I think they are automatons; juiced into a sinister network of pap dealers.
well,
i could write a lot more, but it would be boring. hah.
i just think that people who don't like "good" music only take a mild interest in it and what they hear on the radio is probably what they're more likely to buy. they won't spend an awful lot of time listening to music, and what they want is something instantly satisfying, pop music without depth or meaning. i guess.
I'm starting to like my original answer:
"Don't know, it's just alway been that way."
I just wish so much money wasn't spent on crap music.
You should check out Bill Hicks he said about New Kids On The Block:
Because you know if you play New Kids on the Block albums backwards they sound better. "Oh come on, Bill, they're the New Kids, don't pick on them, they're so good and they're so clean cut and they're such a good image for the children." Fuck that! When did mediocrity and banality become a good image for your children? I want my children to listen to people who fucking ROCKED! I don't care if they died in puddles of their own vomit! I want someone who plays from his fucking HEART!
because it's safe and harmless?
i can't argue or think for shit today.
that's ok, humans weren't meant to argue
I don't know why we do it so much. I have always been an argyooer and a lousy speller to boot. Anyway I liked what you said, it made perfect sense.
thanks
:)
Well apart from the obvious - that taste is subjective
and that for the most part I think the music plenty of people on here like is banal and that they could say the same things about some of my tastes - I think the reason is that most people haven't placed great importance on music at some point in their lives, I would have never gotten "into" music if I wasn't a teenage dick with a superiority complex.
So there you go, my two cents.
A teenage dick with a superiority complex?
Is that your own assessment? How did that status impact your exposure to music. How did that get you into music? Yeah, banality does reign on DiS on occaision but generally you'll find a pretty impressive lot of "good music" enthusiasts. I suspect your assessment of yourself may be a bit hard- a person who truly has a superiority complex could never admit it.
my theory
& i've been pondering this for quite a while; primarily, i can't understand why i have such an emotional response/connection to music, whereas others are so goddam indifferent. my earliest memories of music have always been of a highly reactive nature. even today, music simply moves me (of course what i deem 'good' music). & i'm actually offended by music that is clearly soulless and a money making scheme (boy/girl bands, most stuff heard here on american radio). it boggles my mind that people listen to such insipid and uninspired music. so here's my latest theory:
for some, music becomes a transitional object. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_object
at least for me, this accounts for my tremendous reaction to music (good and bad, which is also another psychological maneuver known as splitting).
but somehow, in my development, i began projecting aspects of myself into music and music contained it. since, music is essentially an 'extension' of my psychic self which provides me with an experience that resonates within my being. or some such shit.
in related news, these new puritans are indeed shit live. so disappointing...
oh yeah
so to actually address the question, why some people don't listen to 'good' music, is that music never became a transitional object. it was never a place where they found safety/comfort, so when they experience music, they're not experiencing what. i hope that makes some type of sense....
This is pretty interesting
I have precisely the same relationship with music as you. Music has long been a transitional object for me not only supplanting my oneness with my Mother but also serving to insulate me and provide buffering from societal dynamics and tribal "norms" I could never relate to. I never ran in packs or related to sports therefore always felt slightly at odds with the examples of "normal" American existence projected by the media which is to say I wasn't a kid who got good grades, had loads of friends, or had a steady girl, played sports or partook in any extracaricular school activities. Spiritually as a youngster I couldn't even relate to God (even though others seemingly could). I became an instant sceptic after I found out about the lengths my folks went to to make (allow) me believe in Santa Claus (which was magical and I'm glad they did it) and hence had a hard time swallowing the stuff they were telling me in sunday school. I was raised in the Mormon Church which is extra tuff on faith challenged Christian individuals in that Mormonism requires you to believe in a third book: The Book Of Mormon. So if you struggle with faith in the Old and New Testaments then you are really in trouble when they bring that third book out. When I was thirteen I entered the Mormon Semenary in preparation for my "Mission" and was eventually ordained as a "Deacon". One of the duties as a deacon is blessing the sacrement in church service (children bless the sacrement in the Mormon church which is kind of cool when you
think about it). I knew that those bits of wonder bread and tiny cups of water represented the body and blood of Christ and it was up to me to ritualisticly transform them for proper consumption. I never did it even once. I told my Mom that I couldn't cause I wasn't sure if I believed in God. I haven't been to church since 1967. About two months later I bought "The Doors" and found everything that had been missing in my life and haven't looked back even once. My Wife is forever describing my penchant for music as some kind of religion- It is.
I just think it's a natural part of being a teenager
you've got to form an identity and to form a healthy ego you form like a completely ridiculous ego. I think rebellion and self-centredness - in my case listening to obscure bands, rebelling against my peers - is a pretty essential part of being a teenager. There are some truly cool teenagers who aren't affected by any of that but most I would suspect have a little bit of a superiority complex even if they try not to show it.
That's just one example of how you could get into obscure "good" music - lame teenage posing. I was affected a little by my brothers music listening habits, by the fact I grew up in a home with internet access. How you become who you are, your interests, your tastes, I personally believe is almost entirely down to nurture.
I'm guessing your son wouldn't have asked that question if you hadn't influenced him somewhat?
its all about distribution
right?
if by distribution you mean exposure
then partially
This all sounds a bit disturbing
and over analytical to me. People have a passion for different things, and I wouldn't say intelligent anaylsis of music is the only way to go anyway. It's good if it captures your interest and that's subjective. Some people don't want the level of immersion as others the same way I couldn't care about the specs of a car.
Seems to me that many music fans place their hobby in too high regard as if it was superior to someone having a fascination with engines or types of cheese. Anything can have an emotional attachment and people can be far too protective of their musical tastes, why does it define us so?
I don't know but do you know that sinking feeling you get
when you find out that some person you have met has terrible taste in music- as if it were some indication of friend potential. Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of freinds and loved ones who have bad or no taste in music. I suppose diversely: Have you ever become more excited about someone when you discover that they have fabulous or promising taste in music?
Yeah I guess
it creates a mutual bond, but it's only a shared interest like any other. I just feel people tend to put music on a pedestal above any other human endeavour, as if it has the power to save the world (I suppose alot of people believe it does).
My girlfriend likes music that ot me seems totally generic and irritating to listen to, and up until recently I couldn't understand it. Then I realised what does it matter if she's "educated" enough about music or understands it on a technical level. She has as much passion for the stuff she likes as I do maybe even more, so I can't help but admire that regardless of whether I like the music.
Maybe I should admire people who have a passion for sports as much too, afterall that unites an awful lot of people. I guess you could say it causes conflict too through supporters rioting, but music fans throw shit at acts they don't like in a similar territorial manner.
because in the grand scheme of things
music isn't that important, I kind of think people really into music have some kind of deficit (im basing this on myself), to tell the difference between what is good and bad takes alot of self education and the end enjoyment is probably the same as if not bothered
Someone pointed out higher on the thread that:
Not only do people not like good music but they don't like good movies either.
I noticed that too and not just music and films but other things as well.
Oh god, now I am sounding elitist but I don't care. I think that if only the people in my country could choose music and films wisely then they could choose their leaders more wisley. Britney Spears and NASCAR=GEORGE BUSHHHH- or something like that.
Or maybe they would become disillusioned
with how little democracy we really have, sink into apathy, then realise that you can only hope to make change on the smallscale level. One vote every 4 years is a great way to keep people quiet without actually needing to involve them in politics.
yeah I sometimes agree
but sometimes I think if someone had never heard music in their entire life and then were exposed to it that they would have alot of trouble telling the difference between 'good' and 'bad' and that the actual difference isn't that major it is just context and external meanings that have been attributed to it, probably alot to do with whether you relate to it or not rather than the actual organisation of sound.
I also like 'bad' movies, people who are really into films probably think im a philistine when im pretty sure im not so I try and not be too hard on people who like 'bad' music. I think the indie attitude normally thinks it has a monopoly on 'real' and 'authentic' but in reality most of the world got by without it so maybe its kinda artifical. I havent articulated myself well but I know what I mean.
I totally agree ^
In fact I've thought to myself about the exact same movie example. It's a good way to keep perspective.
I think food is quite a good analogy
I will eat a really nice meal if it's put in front of me but I don't care enough about flavours to cook one myself.
My wife despairs of me because, left to my own devices, I will eat utter crap. She'll say 'how can you eat that stuff - it's junk'. And I'll just say 'it's easy, it fills me up, I don't care enough to cook'.
Similarly she'll listen to utter pap on the radio because she can't be bothered to / doesn't care enough to soundtrack her day herself.
nail
head
oh dear, you are right
My wife and son will just eat crap or starve till I get home and cook something proper- it's lunacy. I have been eating crap lately too cause I don't seem to have the time and energy to gather ingredients and prepare meals. I can't seem to cook anything lately without totally destroying the kitchen which is an incentive to get carry out or eat frito's and bean dip.
^This is actually genius
;)
My views:
People like immediate, accessible, music because they're simply not interested in involving themselves further, a simple catchy tune to hum and/or sing along to is enough for them and who are we to tell them otherwise.
We all believe that music is a wonderful thing but to some people it’s not that important, not something to spend too much time discovering and exploring. Popular music also helps people to relate to each other in society because almost everyone will know and recognise certain songs.
I hate myself for saying this but some of the love for popular music and the rejection of the more obscure is also due to naivety, some people are pretty stupid and honestly believe that chart music is the best music out there. The old “if that many people like them, they must be good” argument, although I dislike dismissing the importance of others opinions, when it comes to music “our” (music lovers/obsessives, whatever) opinions ARE more important than your average joes. Or maybe not more “important” but “our” arguments have more strength and validity behind them at least.
on shaky ground there
I think.
that goes to the "exposure" argument
Didn't someone, sometime teach "music appreciation" in the forms?
There is no such thing as good or bad music. It's all entirely subjective.
Some is obscure, some is more 'commercial', but just because more people like it doesn't mean that it is of less worth.
Similarly, there is no difference between a fan boy obsessing over a rare Fugazi seven inch, and Jeremy Clarkson slipping a CD of Hi Ho Silver Lining into his dashboard as he prepares to run over a blind fox.
You're right it is subjective..
..but I still respect someones opinion more if they're "into" music, knowledge comes with experience and exposure.