covered in scribbly printed looking black writing called?
and is it any good?
because i've got a copy in the cd collection i look after at work but have never heard it.
it's probably better than all the top gear / motorway service station style 8 disc ultimate mega supreme power ballad compilations that fill up half the collection.
I'd say Mule Variations is a good one to start with, as it's got a bit of everything on it (as far as I can tell, don;t kill me). The ballads on there are the loveliest I've ever heard.
rain dogs
swordfishtrombones
small change
bone machine
frank's wild years
blue valentine
nighthawks
order of rest is immaterial
alice/blood money is incredible in places but tedious in others. real gone is good but too abrasive and a bit repetitive. mule variations is just crap and it actually sounds like he's making fun of himself at various points. heart of saturday night and small change are good but a bit schticky. heartattack & vine is pretty bad. and orphans is great but attempting to listen to it at any point before after listening at least most of his albums would be just stupid
really doesn't do it for me. Compared to music at large it's all pretty good, particularly as a solely musical endeavour, but i find most of his recent lyrics to be pale shadows of his earlier stuff, bordering on pastiche or textbook Waits weirdos n romance a lot of the time
Seriously man. Get a grip. Mule Variations 'Making fun of himself'? No, more like having the most fun he's had making an album in years, and considering the gestation period between it and 1992's Bone Machine, it's one of his freshest sounding albums.
i swear to god the first time i heard "the house where nobody lives" i genuinely thought it was actually a joke. utterly awful lyrics that sound like some vastly inferior songwriter trying to "do tom waits"
cold water, come on up to the house, get behind the mule, pony, hold on, black market baby, etc.....all complete and utter throwaways which sound like self-parodies or pastiches of songs he's done before.
"most fun he's had making an album in years"? i dont think any series of records have ever sounded as fun to make as swordfish through bone machine, and on the contrary, it sounds like mule variations was a forced attempt to make another album, with after half a decade tom trying to remember what it was he thought the character of "tom waits" was supposed to sound like and coming up with pale sketches based around vague memories
its a weak, lazy album. and "considering the gestation period between it and 1992's Bone Machine," it's frankly a fucking terrible album
i say this as someone who came to mule variations very late in wading through tom's discography, and was very disappointed. without getting too brent dicrescenzo here, i still remember listening to "the house where nobody lives" for the first time on a temperamental discman in canada and skipping it about halfway through because i couldnt bear to listen to any more of it
I still think you're absolutely barking, though. As I previously said on this thread, Mule was my first Tom Waits album - Big in Japan was the first Waits song I'd ever really taken notice of (if you can discount Springsteen's version of Jersey Girl which my mum used to play all the time), and being 19 or so when Mule came out, it left a lasting impression, and though I own a good deal of the Waits back catalogue now, including Swordfish, Rain Dogs, Alice, Bone Machine and more, Mule Variations is the one I'll always end up navigating toward. There's something special about it for, and to hear someone call it a joke, especially another Waits fan, sits very wrongly with me.
dont get me wrong, i dont mean i actually believe he was intentionally self-parodying. it just sounded like him trying to do "a tom waits album", and after a wee while out of the recording process he was a bit out of sorts and so was trying to half-heartedly "be himself" again, "himself" being the recording artist that had lodged itself in all his fans' brains. thus resulting in a bunch of unintentional superficial pastiches of his past selves; basically everything on mule variations is done a kajillion times better on rain dogs. i mean im not trying to insult you here but to my ears, mule seems like "tom waits lite". even the better songs (i.e. chocolate jesus) seem to be based around rather banal, overly-obvious lyrical themes (by tom's standards)
hands down the best Waits record to start with. It was my first and the one I return to above all others, regardless of how much better they might or might not be.
If you're feeling adventurous after Mule, pick up the Orphans 3 disc'er, as it does cover an immense ammount of ground within Wait's immense repetoire of styles, and is in parts haunting, beautiful, raucous, tremendous and hilarious. Then you can go get the 'essentials' which most Waits fans will argue the toss over Rain Dogs or Swordfishtrombone - both are great, but not 'starter' albums by any means. If you want something a little gentler even, perhaps you find his ballad style more to your liking, Heart Attack & Vine and Blue Valentines are great.
By this point you will be hopelessly in love with the man and pretty much need no further advice as you'll be gleefully completing his back catalogue of your own volition.
don't get asylum years. it's a waste 'cos you really want to buy all those albums individually anyway.
i would say go one album per decade:
70s: small change/blue valentine
80s: rain dogs/swordfishtrombones
90s: bone machine/mule variations
00s: well, personally i really like real gone...
i got through all the albums juts buying them at random from every part of his career. it works - he's really never been shite
I think Mule Variations is a nice introduction, there's something for everyone and it's all good. If you like the croony, heartfelt stuff, you can go in one direction; if you like the insane barking, hey, there's Bone Machine waiting to tear you a new one. Either way, I think MV is a nice taster pot.
Best one though? That'll be a dead heat between Swordfishtrombones, Rain Dogs and The Heart of Saturday Night.
but to me it's where I'd start. The title track is brilliant and it's where he really started to experiment with odd percussion sounds. Its got a nice mixture of the experimental oddnesss and beautiful balledeering that both lie at the heart of Waits' appeal.
I'm not an expert but have heard at least 5 albums and a lot of his other stuff here and there thanks to my dad, and swordfishtrombones has an excellent mix of his various styles, which is what you should be looking for since everyone will probably just tell you their favourite album.
it's just a lot of people get more hooked up on Rain Dogs and Swordfishtrombones.
Also, Black Rider isn't so much an album as the collected songs of a play co-written with William S. Burroughs (same way that Blood Money and Alice are song collections from Plays rather than albums proper). Just cause I'm feeling technically anal today!
My favourite is Bone Machine though; the harsh stuff is enormous and terrifying, and the ballads are heart-crunching. And there are rockers on there too, like Black Wings and Goin' Out West and the Ramones-approved I Don't Wanna Grow Up.
whats the album with red cover
covered in scribbly printed looking black writing called?
and is it any good?
because i've got a copy in the cd collection i look after at work but have never heard it.
Real Gone
It's one of his weakest albums to be honest, but it's still got a couple of excellent tracks on. Definitely worth listening to.
i might get it out
next time im at work.
it's probably better than all the top gear / motorway service station style 8 disc ultimate mega supreme power ballad compilations that fill up half the collection.
You are basically extremely wrong
And I expect you are bluffing about having ears.
real gone
is definitely not one of his worst, but its not one his best either
Raindogs
You'll get at least 7 different answers to your question, but this is the correct one.
ARROGANCE WILL GET YOU EVERYWHERE
^^^^Just do as he says ^^^
Small Change
and it's the one you'll always come back to, again and again
For the early jazz stuff, Asylum Years
For the live troubadour stuff, Nighthawks At The Diner
For the studio Waits, you're going to need Swordfish Trombones, Mule, Alice and Real Gone.
Replace Mule with
Raindogs, Alice with Franks Wild Years and Real Gone with The Black Rider, and you've got a deal!
NO DEAL.
But ultimately, this person should own all of those albums.
the correct answer
is Rain Dogs.
Then Alice.
Then Frank's Wild Years.
Then everything else.
Rain Dogs is SO not as good as Swordfish Trombones.
here we go
Probably Rain Dogs
but Blue Valentines and Nighthawks at the diner are also very, very good.
Small Change > Blue Valentines
Rain Dogs
Definitely.
Then Swordfishtrombones and Nighthawks at the Diner.
Rain Dogs obvs
some people might say it's a bit too unusual and recommend you some of his smooth lounge stuff - they are not to be trusted
Rain Dogs is in the top ten, but not the top 5.
And his 'smooth lounge' stuff is the last credible part of beat culture and not what you think it is.
Rain Dogs IS Tom Waits
much as i like his lounge stuff, you have to start with Rain Dogs for the full experience
And it is the best imho
'Lounge'.
Sigh
'Sigh'
Sigh
Here's the correct answer:
Get Orphans first. It pretty much covers every "style" he's ever written in, and is fantastic as a compilation AND as an album.
Then you should get rain dogs, cos it has his best songs on it.
Then you should asylum years, cos it has his best ballads on it.
Then you should get the black rider because it's his best album.
Then just get everything else because he's amazing.
As someone who only started listening to Tom Waits recently
I'd say Mule Variations is a good one to start with, as it's got a bit of everything on it (as far as I can tell, don;t kill me). The ballads on there are the loveliest I've ever heard.
the winner is
Mule Variations
.
rain dogs
swordfishtrombones
small change
bone machine
frank's wild years
blue valentine
nighthawks
order of rest is immaterial
alice/blood money is incredible in places but tedious in others. real gone is good but too abrasive and a bit repetitive. mule variations is just crap and it actually sounds like he's making fun of himself at various points. heart of saturday night and small change are good but a bit schticky. heartattack & vine is pretty bad. and orphans is great but attempting to listen to it at any point before after listening at least most of his albums would be just stupid
"heart of saturday night and small change"
should be "heart of saturday night and closing time"
most of his stuff after Bone Machine
really doesn't do it for me. Compared to music at large it's all pretty good, particularly as a solely musical endeavour, but i find most of his recent lyrics to be pale shadows of his earlier stuff, bordering on pastiche or textbook Waits weirdos n romance a lot of the time
This post is bordering on imploding with WRONG.
Seriously man. Get a grip. Mule Variations 'Making fun of himself'? No, more like having the most fun he's had making an album in years, and considering the gestation period between it and 1992's Bone Machine, it's one of his freshest sounding albums.
no
i swear to god the first time i heard "the house where nobody lives" i genuinely thought it was actually a joke. utterly awful lyrics that sound like some vastly inferior songwriter trying to "do tom waits"
cold water, come on up to the house, get behind the mule, pony, hold on, black market baby, etc.....all complete and utter throwaways which sound like self-parodies or pastiches of songs he's done before.
"most fun he's had making an album in years"? i dont think any series of records have ever sounded as fun to make as swordfish through bone machine, and on the contrary, it sounds like mule variations was a forced attempt to make another album, with after half a decade tom trying to remember what it was he thought the character of "tom waits" was supposed to sound like and coming up with pale sketches based around vague memories
its a weak, lazy album. and "considering the gestation period between it and 1992's Bone Machine," it's frankly a fucking terrible album
.
i say this as someone who came to mule variations very late in wading through tom's discography, and was very disappointed. without getting too brent dicrescenzo here, i still remember listening to "the house where nobody lives" for the first time on a temperamental discman in canada and skipping it about halfway through because i couldnt bear to listen to any more of it
Oh well, one man's meat and all that.
I still think you're absolutely barking, though. As I previously said on this thread, Mule was my first Tom Waits album - Big in Japan was the first Waits song I'd ever really taken notice of (if you can discount Springsteen's version of Jersey Girl which my mum used to play all the time), and being 19 or so when Mule came out, it left a lasting impression, and though I own a good deal of the Waits back catalogue now, including Swordfish, Rain Dogs, Alice, Bone Machine and more, Mule Variations is the one I'll always end up navigating toward. There's something special about it for, and to hear someone call it a joke, especially another Waits fan, sits very wrongly with me.
.
dont get me wrong, i dont mean i actually believe he was intentionally self-parodying. it just sounded like him trying to do "a tom waits album", and after a wee while out of the recording process he was a bit out of sorts and so was trying to half-heartedly "be himself" again, "himself" being the recording artist that had lodged itself in all his fans' brains. thus resulting in a bunch of unintentional superficial pastiches of his past selves; basically everything on mule variations is done a kajillion times better on rain dogs. i mean im not trying to insult you here but to my ears, mule seems like "tom waits lite". even the better songs (i.e. chocolate jesus) seem to be based around rather banal, overly-obvious lyrical themes (by tom's standards)
big in japan slams, though
hold on
possibly the most beautiful song he ever wrote. this alone legitemises mule variations
as i said
"basically everything on mule variations is done a kajillion times better on rain dogs"
time > hold on
Mule Variations,
hands down the best Waits record to start with. It was my first and the one I return to above all others, regardless of how much better they might or might not be.
If you're feeling adventurous after Mule, pick up the Orphans 3 disc'er, as it does cover an immense ammount of ground within Wait's immense repetoire of styles, and is in parts haunting, beautiful, raucous, tremendous and hilarious. Then you can go get the 'essentials' which most Waits fans will argue the toss over Rain Dogs or Swordfishtrombone - both are great, but not 'starter' albums by any means. If you want something a little gentler even, perhaps you find his ballad style more to your liking, Heart Attack & Vine and Blue Valentines are great.
By this point you will be hopelessly in love with the man and pretty much need no further advice as you'll be gleefully completing his back catalogue of your own volition.
Happy listening!
most definitely start with
alice
the back rider
nighthawks at the diner
...then get everything else
:)
It's the weekly 'where to start with Tom Waits thread!'
just a wee point...
don't get asylum years. it's a waste 'cos you really want to buy all those albums individually anyway.
i would say go one album per decade:
70s: small change/blue valentine
80s: rain dogs/swordfishtrombones
90s: bone machine/mule variations
00s: well, personally i really like real gone...
i got through all the albums juts buying them at random from every part of his career. it works - he's really never been shite
Spot on
I think Mule Variations is a nice introduction, there's something for everyone and it's all good. If you like the croony, heartfelt stuff, you can go in one direction; if you like the insane barking, hey, there's Bone Machine waiting to tear you a new one. Either way, I think MV is a nice taster pot.
Best one though? That'll be a dead heat between Swordfishtrombones, Rain Dogs and The Heart of Saturday Night.
I'd say....
Small Change for me, one of my favourite records ever.
Not many people have said 'Swordfishtrombones' yet
but to me it's where I'd start. The title track is brilliant and it's where he really started to experiment with odd percussion sounds. Its got a nice mixture of the experimental oddnesss and beautiful balledeering that both lie at the heart of Waits' appeal.
Do you like
sweet melody or shouting and banging bits of metal together?
If the former, anything pre-1980. All good. If the latter, I can't help you because it's very repetitive and irritating. And too growly!
Agreed.
I'm not an expert but have heard at least 5 albums and a lot of his other stuff here and there thanks to my dad, and swordfishtrombones has an excellent mix of his various styles, which is what you should be looking for since everyone will probably just tell you their favourite album.
get
swordfishtrombones
Why is the black rider so underrated amongst tom waits fans?
it's his best album.
I don't think it's underrated,
it's just a lot of people get more hooked up on Rain Dogs and Swordfishtrombones.
Also, Black Rider isn't so much an album as the collected songs of a play co-written with William S. Burroughs (same way that Blood Money and Alice are song collections from Plays rather than albums proper). Just cause I'm feeling technically anal today!
i know
either way, it's the album of his that sounds most like an album, so it basically is. what?
It's all good
Basically, pick any one of his albums. They can be very different sounding, but they're all good.
I'm especially partial to Alice, Small Change and Nighthawks at the Diner.
But it's all lovely. Even his 'early years' compilations where he bangs out a country tune or two.
I'd advise hiring every single one of his albums from your local public library, and making your own personal best of compilation.
alice is massively overrated
because of its absolutely not massively overrated, absolutely incredible opening/title track. after that it's all downhill
^yup^
always thought that
THANK YOU
I only have Real gone and Alice
I really like Alice but can only get like half way through Real gone before getting bored, it's a bit repetitive.
Rain dog is sounding like a good next option.
First album
Bone Machine.
alot of drivel being talked here its obviously Rain Dogs
Can anyone who isnt trying to be country-intuitive, witty, show how much of a fan they are or quirky just say agreed or something.
Tom Waits LPs
Alice, Rain Dogs, Franks Wild Years, Swordfishtrombones, Mule Variations
These are all worth your time.
I started on Swordfishtrombones
and it got me right into Waits.
My favourite is Bone Machine though; the harsh stuff is enormous and terrifying, and the ballads are heart-crunching. And there are rockers on there too, like Black Wings and Goin' Out West and the Ramones-approved I Don't Wanna Grow Up.
I'd say Orphans
gives a pretty good overview of most of the styles he has covered over his career and would be a decent starting point.
Or get Small Change, Rain Dogs and Alice at the same time.