http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo
a video showing how truly ignorant some people are on the matter^
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also
what are everyone elses opinions?
CAN OF WORMS.
STAND BACK.
legal
but with the necessary safeguards to ensure it doesn't encourage irresponsible procreation and possibly with some way of incorporating the father's wishes into the process more...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agree with what you say about irresponsible procreation. Apparently in some western european countries, abortion is seen as a type of contraception, some women have had up to 30 abortions. I think it should be legal, but we can't let it get to that point, people need to know about proper contraception.
^^
bullshit.
you can;t have it both ways
when the father goes 9 months with a baby inside i'll accept that.
when a father isn't responsible for 50% of a child's genetic makeup
I'll agree that he ought to have no say in whether it exists or not. I'm not saying the father ought to have equal rights to the mother, obviously you can't force a woman to have an abortion, but they ought to have more say.
yes
and the penalty should be death
I've pretty much stated
my opinion on Abortion.
But since I have no right to force my opinion on anyone else, it should be legal.
that's pretty deep for this time at night
my friends sent me the video
I thought I might as well share it with DiS.
depth is overrated
it is pretty ridiculous that
they would spend so much time campaigning on that without actually having thought about such obvious practicalities, but i think most abortionists think that its doctors who should be punished for illegal abortions, so its not as jarring as it seems, hes just asked pretty stupid people
I cannot believe the last woman
she wouldn't even state her own thoughts on it and when the man asking her the questions had totally clamped her she just claimed god had "brought her" there to campaign, and then she said goodbye and sent them away, jesus.
^ pretty much this
i'm guessing their legal beliefs are all based around punishing the doctors, and so leaving women with no chance of having it done in the first place
Personally I think it should be legal
What exactly is the ruling on abortion in the UK? Is it only legal under certain circumstances?
I thought it was just entirely legal?
There are certain conditions.
really?
what are the conditions?
You can't do it after a certain period
Third Trimester maybe?
Also
you have to get two doctors to agree.
oh well I knew that
I thought you meant like depending on the amount of times you had had one or something.
yes
it's the time period
Legal
For moral reasons.
do people see abortion as murder?
Kind of.
I find it to be pretty horrifying really.
I should have said
not where the mothers life is endanger or she was raped etc
well surely no matter what the circumstances
it's still the same procedure and should be viewed in the same way?
Not really
You can kill people under certain circumstances and not be charged with murder.
but surely it would sitll be classed as murder regardless?
even if they weren't charged?
No
Self-Defence etc
hm
well then surely jsut killing someone in cold blood should be viewed as murder?
in which case an abortion would only be murder if the mother was doing it for some sort of kick, as opposed to just not wanting a child?
I think we've got confused
I don't think the because the basic prodecure is the same, that circumstances should be regarded as unimportant.
I find it hard to accept that someone should be able to have an abortion because they feel that a baby would impinge upon their life too much.
If they had a baby and decided a week in that life was too hard they cannot legally kill the child. I don't really see why there should be a distinction made between an unborn baby and a baby.
well, for me, I don't view an embryo or developing foetus as a person
so I don't see it the same as killing a child after one week of life.
But why not?
I concede that a foetus after a week or two isn't recognisable as a human.
But after 12 weeks?
This is pretty much the fundamental issue. I just don't see why the fact that a baby is in the womb should render it as somehow less human.
you don't feel particularly connected with something just growing inside you
and it hasn't developed into a proper being. If your child was born, you develop a connection with it, or at least moreso than you would when it was simply developing inside you, you see it as a person when it's born, not before. (at least I don't)
Define
'proper being'
a baby cannot communicate in any more than the most basic ways, it can't take care of itself.
Also science has shown pretty conclusively that unborn babies can feel pain, can be influence by outside factors.
I just don't buy the whole birth is the most important idea
ach I just don't see something that is developing inside someone
as a proper being, even though a baby cannot survive by itself once born, it's now become it's own being, it's not connected to it's mother in the same way, yes it still relies on her/ the father to live, but not in the same way.
and this is why we won't agree
on this.
ok well we'll just agree to disagree then!
because
while it is inside of you it is still part of you and connected to you.
Connected: Yes
A part of you? No.
so
it is not a fully fledged human being.
i don't think of it like that
I can understand why people would, obviously, but I think it's blown out of proportion and that it really shouldn't be viewed that way.
I know a couple of girls
that have had abortions,and really, its not the life-altering/destroying decision that many people make it out to be
not as much as having a baby anyway
AMIRITE?
Yes!
As much as
sneaking up behind someone with no friends or family and shooting them in the back of head is murder.
so...
not at all then
No, quite a lot
But I think deciding whether something is or isn't murder completely misses the moral issue.
If your baba is chris_is_cool then it should be manditory
if not, it's up to you, you fat cunt.;
:D :D :D :D
I don't think it's right..
but I don't think it should be made illegal. If people want to, and they have their own rational defence, then they can do what they like.
I wouldn't encourage it myself though, if you don't want a child, put it up for adoption, don't abort it...
you really think a life of having been neglected by your parents
and going through an orphanage is better that maybe just not having a child at all? I realise the child could lead a fulfilling life if it was born, but no one can know.
realise the first sentence there is a bit emssed up
but I hope you understand what I mean anyway.
oi! hedgy!
i put my view in the other thread
I know, I saw.
hedgy? oh dear god.
sorry, should I finish that and not leave god hanging again? :|
nah leave him be
hedgy...lol..it sounds cute.
it makes me sound like someone with bad hair
no, we'll leave it at cute
otherwise i have this horrid image of you with patches of hair.
hey you put the image in there
you get rid of it by calling me something better!
I did!! i was thinking a cute lil hedgehog!!
no I meant the image of me with patchy hair.
yeah you have little prickly protectors now
can't you just view me as something
you wouldn't link to the word "hedgy" ?
naked
no, that wouldn't work either....
haha! im only messing!!
omg i'm laughing out loud!!! ha ha ah!!
you worry me quite a lot sometimes.
haha oh dear
it's been a while since we have had a good ole banter lydon....:-)
this is good ole banter?
I'm being scared and you're laughing :(
oh :-(
well i thought it was just a little bit of fun.
ok then
I'm not TOTALLY scared, that should make it more fun.
yay
fun-ness returning
let me know when it arrives
;)
fully arrived
has it?
yes, but now it's tired and wants to go bed
night
x
*laptop off*
and the fun lasted for so long...
It's a tricky one,
but I think a child should at least get a chance to be brought up by people who actually care about them, rather then not have a life.
Pretty much this ^
there are many
who are left unwanted though and end up being abused by the system. If abortion was illegal you'd have even more children left in care which i imagine would be pretty shitty.
I don't think it should be illegal though.
But this doesn't mean we
should assume non-existence is a better fate than that.
I think it should be up to the parent to decide what's best for their unborn child
I don't think it should be up to others to say "Yes it should be illegal for a woman to make this decision" why should they be able to remove this right for someone to decide for themselves?
Because
it isn't just affecting them.
I believe that an unborn baby is just as much entitled to have their rights and needs taken into account.
but it will effect them most in the long run
I don't think every person should give birth to a child if they become pregnant just so that child can live and make decisions itself later, if a person feels they do not want to become a pregant I don't see why they should stay that way just because others believe they should.
and we go round in circles
I could easily say why should someone be killed just because someone decided they don't want to be inconvenienced.
Obviously that is THE most black and white situation and I know any situation is much more complicated than that.
I believe in Libertarianism. If someone is not affected others then I think they should be able to live their life as they see fit.
But in this circumstance they are affecting someone else.
we are always affecting others
by every decision we ever make. I'm not sure where this vacuum, that libertarians think that humans can live in, exists.
but up there
you said its alright in certain circumstances like if she was raped, you cant make exceptions like that as that child has just as much rights as a child born accidentally to a married couple.
But that
is something that could well have a profound traumatic effect on the mother.
and in that case I think her rights are more important.
Same with her life being endangered.
but surely that depends on the person
a mother who isnt allwed to have an abortion might suffer from the same amount of trauma, theres no way of measuring it. So to say its right for one person and not for the other isnt really fair.
It's basically wherever you draw the line
there is an argument to be made that since the west values human life to the degree it does, why should any mental trauma take precedence over an actual life?
I don't really believe that myself, but I can see the reasoning behind the argument.
I think abortion should be viwed int he same way
with the exception of people just using abortion as some sort of contraception, ie. carelessly having sex so often they need to have many abortions, aside from that, I don't think one person you should have priority over another when they are choosing something like this.
Also
I think that if abortion was illegal, it wouldn't stop people from getting them, and then they would just be getting them in unsafe, dirty environments. I know this sounds illogical,but I would rather see them safe and get an abortion than die trying to get an illegal abortion.
if it was made illegal
which, in some places it is. women would have to resort to extreme and unsafe measures to have an abortion or would simply have to have a child they may end up resenting, not loving. where is the use in that?