It is true that there isn't a medium-sized "independent" venue in the centre of Birmingham. So what. How do you define independent? Why would an independent venue not have to make money just like a non-independent venue? Who do you think fails to get gigs at Bar Academy and Barfly who would get them at an independent venue of a similar size? You also seem to have forgotten about the Glee Club.

I'm appalled by your peremptorial dismissing of the venues I mentioned as being "specialist" and for "niche" fans. What the hell does that mean?

You say that Bar Academy has a "such a low profile". Who holds that view?

You suggest Penate wouldn't draw 80 at Sunflower, a venue right in the centre of town, and then suggest there needs to be a bigger venue for acts like them, in the centre of town!

You seem keen on bands who "are about to become big" or words to that effect. Why do you care about that?

Finally, you decry the "fragmentation" of a "scene" in Birmingham. Do you want everyone to be in the same club, all going out together in a big gang to see exactly the same bands? That sounds awful.

It is clear that we are looking at music in Birmingham from very different perspectives: I am a music fan who likes to go to gigs to see and hear good music; you, clearly, aspire to be in the music business and view the gig situation in Birmingham from the outlook of the business.

Birmingham has many good gigs throughout every week and many, many fine bands. The number of suitable venues seems to increase all the time. My gripe at the moment is that many bands leave Birmingham off their tours and there does need to be more productive contact between the Birmingham-based promoters and bands' agents and tour organisers.

i dont think the social really draws a crowd.
ymss played to around 50 (if that) recently with 16 on the guestlist.
same with Asobi Seksu, Besnard Lakes and much more.

iliketrains has been the only one recently that ive been to that done well.

Just realised that I sound like one of those knobs who gets really defensive if anyone says about word about their learning establishment before bitching about every other learning establishment within half-an-hours drive. Aston is pretty pants really but the live music guys do work hard to help everyone out.

As a member of the band, it's really nice to know that people rate us!

As far as the rest of this forum is saying I think the biggest problem with the birmingham 'scene' is the lack of fans. We have the bands, and we have the venues - I can certainly name a good 10 or so in and around the centre. I think promoters have done a great job of ruining small gigs though, by consistently putting on shit bands the fans believe that going to a random gig in brum will mean watching more shit bands. Unfortunately this is still the case! I went to the Adam £ Eve the other week only to see some of the worst music I've ever seen - we had to leave.

So, a friend and I are planning a revolution in promotion, by only putting on good bands and spreading our brand around above the name of the bands (well, we'll rate them if they advertise us) we'll create a co-operative relationship with good bands (good performers, reliable people) and hopefully our brand will become well known for putting on good gigs. Like people go to see their favorite bands, hopefully people will come to see our events. Obviously this will take some time but fingers crossed it will do good in the area and maybe someone else will do the same with other genres!

Look out for Save Our Scene Promotions for all your metal, punk and hardcore music!